According to my research, the future child's energy is present a while before the woman even becomes pregnant. This fact alone brings up an interesting point. The odds of having a child to full-term are impressive, as are the odds of making it to adulthood. According to Ron Paul (who was an OB/GYN), he never saw a need for an abortion - not even to protect the life of the mother. This is due to the fact that there are many medical options, but doctors are either uninformed or they prefer to leave the patients uninformed. I have never actually heard of a case either. Early deliveries are usually an option if there is a situation that needs to be addressed immediately.

Now for the question of abortion in cases of rape or incest. What makes the child less desirable? There are cases where the children turned out to be beautiful, intelligent, and caring individuals. What makes it difficult is not as much the circumstances of the child's conception, but rather the social stigma attached to it. Granted, the circumstances are traumatic, but the child should be viewed as a healing balm, not a secondary trauma.

Additionally, most women (90-98%) regret their abortions, regardless of the circumstances.

At the end of it all, we either make excuses for people or help them see the light at the end of the tunnel. The decision is ours.

But do ANY arguments justify either a 'medical professional' or any form of the state (Judge or governments etc) forcing a LAW onto its citizens ?

Shouldnt it be ultimately down to the woman to make her own mind up (and make her own mistakes if you choose to view it as such)?

Now as for 'misinformation' or 'neglecting to inform' im sorry to say is all too common in my experience with doctors - however - I learned many years ago to not rely on them to 'give me the information' - I find that my self and confront them with it.

When a doctor knows you know certain things - they usually give up cutting corners. The same can be said for many things in life - eg a mechanic is unlikely to try n rip you off if they know you know (or they think you know) enough to catch them out.

With doctors - its your body and you right to know ALL the options etc and I feel this is precisely the case with abortion.

I guess what I would like to see happen, speaking from a woman's perspective, is doctors who support pregnancy as a healthy state of being instead of being asked, \"You really want this thing?\" as soon as you tell them you are expecting. Many omen feel vulnerable at this point, as their body is changing shape, they are attempting to keep peace, etc. They need support, not negativity. If women want an abortion, there is no way I can think of to stop them, but too often it is pushed on them for cultural, social, religious, political, or financial reasons.

What I feel should change is the fact that 97% of women were coerced into having an abortion. This is what constitutes a lack of freedom. Additionally, many women are not informed about the results an abortion will have on their body in the future, such as an increased risk of various forms of cancer, higher possibility of miscarriage should they later decide to bring a child to full term, etc. I could continue, but I would rather not have a post that sounds like the warnings on a drug ad. Pregnancy has been shown to have beneficial side-effects for women, provided they have the proper diet and exercise.

To sum it up: real information and real freedom are what is needed, not laws to decide what to do or not do.

I'm not able to find any evidence about 97% being coerced. Where did you see that? There is so much misinformation on this subject I'm sure you did find it somewhere and it seemed credible. I've never heard that before and I've studied this issue for decades.

This is not the last word on the subject but the information here is fairly accurate http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

My own wish is that abortion should never be necessary or desired but realistically we can at least hope to make it safe and rare through education and health services. There are cases where it's the right thing to do out of compassion and love. I'll post an example of that soon.

The BIG QUESTION is: When does a potential person deserve the full rights and consideration of a full person?

I'd have to ask that anyone responding to this first read the Sagan post before answering this long though it is.

What do you (I'm speaking to everyone) think and why? How can we as an organization and Jedi help?

I was informed about that several years back. It was written in an article somewhere, but am currently unable to locate the source, as I have moved several times since then. It may have been a local statistic. I believe some of the social changes in the past few years have contributes to the difference between that and the current statistics. Currently, the conservative estimates for coerced abortions range from 40-85% in the United States, and varies in other countries.

Here is the most current and accurate link I found:

www.dakotavoice.com/Docs/South%20Dakota%...20Force%20Report.pdf

Now for the other questions. I read through the article before my first post on the thread, and have read similar articles before. I guess it all comes to this:

Energy, which is what is responsible for the life in each of us, has no beginning or end, according to the laws of physics. In this case, it would mean that the energy (life) is always there. From this point of view, every cell of the body should be treated with respect, as each cell contains life. So when does a potential person receive the full rights and consideration of a full person? I would prefer to veer on the side of safety by letting nature take its course. By this, I mean that there are many reasons an egg may never become a baby. If there is a defect of some sort, nature usually takes care of the issue on its own. If not, there is usually a way to solve it (regardless of what the medical profession says). I have known individuals who were born with medical issues of drastic proportions. This does not stop them from having the possibility of living \"normally\", unless people make it that way. Additionally, I have heard of people who were told their child would have medical issues, and when the baby was born, they were perfectly normal.

That said, I guess you could call me pro-nature, pro-nurture.

How can we help? I will have to ponder that for a bit.

Thank you Julianna for a well reasoned thoughtful response.

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I don't quite know how I feel about it.

One the one hand, the unborn is alive and after a short time aware of it's surroundings (to the extent that it can be what with the lack of light and coherent sensory information). At the same time, before the child begins to develop a brain and sentience, it isn't truly alive in the human sense (only alive in a biological sense).

I can't say whether I'm for it or against it completely as a rule simply because the whole issue is a bit beyond me to be honest. However, I can say one thing about it as a personal belief:
Whether or not someone gets an abortion is not my business, nor is it anyone else's business but the person making the decision. It's not mine nor anyone else's place to legislate or morally censure people against doing it. It's a wholly personal decision.

It's a tough debate to be sure. I can't say for sure when life is life. Science isn't either. No holy man, nor doctor, nor philosopher has answered that or will ever.

I think that people have a right to choose, and with situations of rape and certainly certain doom to the mother and unborn child/fetus due to medical complications are a different story (few as those complications are) and should be no harsh judgement for an abortion.

In our high schools we have girls getting knocked up to be cool! gone are the days when children getting pregnant is rare. it's becoming a fashion statement and since the world is so afraid of condoms and the pill and certainly informing our youth about these methods! Or my favorite birth control method; Asprin. Hold one asprin with both knees and don't drop it (keeping your legs closed) it's 100% effective and prevents all STD's. Really though the argument is sound that people will have unwanted children and it was their choice so why legislate their choice.

However, having adopted 3 children I think if you have an unwanted pregnancy there are better ways than abortion. So many good parents are unable to have children and want more than anything a child. However due to cost you see them seeing a doctor (who takes their insurance) first.

I think adoptions should have no cost, then you'd see the abortion issues fade out. and of course if we also stop being so scared of explaining condoms and the pill, and the morning after pill (or that whole asprin notion), reason and common sense would solve this whole problem.

On the other hand \"delayed abortion\" could work with no problems. Abort the one who's getting the abortion. See how they like the wire hanger and shop vacuum!

some times, its important to know more, why she like to do it? is there any other option?
Legal or not, woman do it anyway, so what is better, do it wrong and maybe lose 2 lives, or just make it right under control.