Good and Bad Exist?

Moderators: Adder, Adhara

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 08:48 #47248

Good and evil exist in nature.
They exist as one.
Thinking separates.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 09:16 #47252

ichange wrote:
Good and evil exist in nature.
They exist as one.
Thinking separates.

Interesting concept because I believe:

Good and Evil do not exist in nature...
Neither Exist,
Thinking Creates Them!

Let me add - Humans thinking creates them!
Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice: Arcade

Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!

"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker

“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn
Last Edit: 06 Jan 2012 09:18 by Phortis Nespin.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 10:26 #47261

  • Adder
  • Adder's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Knight
  • ID: 7778
Phortis Nespin wrote:
Let me add - Humans thinking creates them!

Do you exclude other animals because you think they cannot comprehend the suffering of others or do you think they are incapable of evil?

I wonder because I dont think its just humans... I extend a capacity for evil to all animals. I'm not sure about insects yet. My cat (and dogs I've known) can be what I consider evil. I know it's instinct is to hunt to eat, but it routinely tries to practise hunting for fun. Training is good to an extent, but it doesnt really care between the pain and suffering of its victim and so for me that selfishness is comparible to evil. Many animals cause pain and suffering for their own amusement because its a challenge and I think instinctually predators sense the need to kill prey at every opportunity to avoid periods when no prey is available. The key is I think they are smart enough to control themselves and decide not too.
Last Edit: 06 Jan 2012 10:29 by Adder.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:00 #47264

I know that animals have feelings; and, I am certain all intelligent life perceives at least some array of emotion. But I do not feel that all animals perceive good and evil.

These are concepts of morality are based on a dualistic structure. Free will has been accredited with the creation of concepts associated with positive and negative influences. Social acceptance governs the terms that regulate the combining of actions into the moral structure of what is good and what is evil. And what is good in one culture is sometimes not in another.

All life has free will. All life has intelligence. But a complete understanding of each creatures social structure is still foreign to us. So, I believe it is a bit presumptuous for us to associate human characteristics to things we do not fully comprehend.

Yes, there are events which to us seem to cause emotional responses in the behavior of animals; both positive and negative. And I believe the animals understand the difference between joy and sadness, love and hate. But do they see certain events, behaviors and actions as good or evil... probably not. And not because they are not capable of such a level of experience but because they are most likely not experiencing life with the same social structures as us.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:04 #47265

I have pondered the question of whether animals are good or evil and have come to the conclusion that they are not. Animals are capable of so many "emotions" that are similar to that of humans. Dolphins are a prime example of extending emotion towards humans who have had emergencies while in the ocean. And although other animals, especially dogs and cats, have what seem to be human type emotions, I believe they are more instinctual than learned.

I believe what seems like emotion is just a response to a set of circumstances that trigger a instinctual response to display "happy", "sad", "anger", or "fear". I do not believe that nature can be evil or good because they are what they are. It is the human intervention that causes the basic animal to change its response to its surroundings or environment. Besides, if we believe that the Force is not good or evil, and it is our human nature to put labels to things, than???

Believe me, I am on a shaky ledge on this issue so don't beat me up too bad on it. But if I understand what I have been reading, I side with animals are just doing what they do.
Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice: Arcade

Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!

"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker

“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:16 #47267

  • Adder
  • Adder's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Knight
  • ID: 7778
Yeah I wouldnt be so presumptious to call any particular animal 'evil' as that sort of judgement would have to be an exageration, but I do have the personal opinion many (possibly all) animals have the capacity for evil behaviours - certainly not all types of evil behaviours, but things like my example above of unnecessarily causing pain and suffering to another creature. I guess you could say I think animals have a light or dark path to choose from just like us!

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:32 #47271

I think that all the points discussed are valid. And I agree that animals do things that we consider to be good or evil. And I know that an animal senses when it has done what others perceive as bad. I have seen this every time my dog has an accident in the floor and I give her the “evil eye” :P

I was merely saying that I don't think animals perceive their own actions as good or bad, or the actions of other animals as good or bad; because, I view those as human inventions.

But hey, I could be completely wrong! I am just drawing from what I have experienced. And I would love to set down and discus philosophy with an animal or insect or plant. And I'm not being sarcastic. I would love to know just what does go on in their minds. And maybe someday we will be able to!

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:41 #47272

  • Adder
  • Adder's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Knight
  • ID: 7778
Wescli Wardest wrote:
I was merely saying that I don't think animals perceive their own actions as good or bad, or the actions of other animals as good or bad; because, I view those as human inventions.

Ahh ok, interesting. I guess I view concepts of evil as objective (if thats the right word) and linked to spirituality through physical welfare, wheras good and bad are more subjective, for me evil is at another level and any living creature would (might) have the ability to have a connection to it (the Force) by virtue of being sentient. I do feel though that animals have a harder time reaching a level of understanding of the Force because they are seemingly so much more driven by instinct then humans.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 12:08 #47275

Why is it that every time I think of good and evil, it draws me back to the Dungeons and Dragons game? Good, Evil, Neutral Good, Neutral evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil, etc.

Then another though occurred, good vs bad is different from GOOD vs EVIL.

Some children are bad and some are good, but an evil child gets exorcized.:P
Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice: Arcade

Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!

"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker

“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 19:37 #47291

Lmao!! That's clever!
Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • invitation to totjo (Last post by Brenna)
    • ;) Im not anyone's padawan as you may have noticed from my rank bar. And if you read my reply without making assumptions, you'll notice that I said it is my opinion. What I truly believe. Sarcasm was neither implied nor intended. I'm sorry if you read it that way. It is after all, not my call to make. I'm simply asking questions, sharing my thoughts. Though it seems that you'd rather I didn't. My apologies.
    • Father knocks out sons abuser. (Last post by RyuJin)
    • I read about this a few days ago....it happened here in florida...stand your ground law state...he's lucky dad didn't have a gun... he's also lucky dad didn't take his "gun"...I don't know how long after he lost consciousness it would be before I stopped...I imagine I'd be pretty feral if I came home and discovered that happening to my child(if I ever have any)
    • Still Around (Last post by scott777ab)
    • Quote: Hi Scott, good to see you're still around. Quote: I now try to keep most of my opinions to myself. Why's that? Why not? But to give a better answer. I just do not find it productive to argue anymore. What I believe is what I believe, no one is going to change that but me; it is pointless for me to argue a point trying to change someone else. If someone wants to know what I believe about something they can ask me, but I am not going to just blab my mouth no more. I have better things to do.
    • Everything is Made of Energy Stuff (Last post by Adder)
    • Quote: So... if energy is conscious and aware (whatever the heck that means because with the ill, nay, sick non-definition of energy it could be literally anything and one might expect that consciousness and awareness are buzz words of the same nature), and we are an example of that, then wouldn't rocks be an example of energy being not conscious nor aware (unless the ill, nay sick non-definitions of conscious and aware are such as to allow for conscious and aware rocks, i suppose)? If we are arguing from examples, surely that must go both ways, and conversely, in order for it to only go one way the argument must be one that wouldn't rely on examples. If looking for useful definitions, an example might be 'conscious' being self aware, and 'aware' being aware of outside of self. The 'structure' of a rock is simple compared to an animal, and its rate, quantity and variety of change is, as a result, at a different temporal frame. By virtue of its simplicity that rock can last a million years, by virtue of our complexity we collapse near 100. The problem might be expecting some truth from a practise, when the practise is not about seeking truth primarily but improving the experience of reality to have a better and more rich truth. Funny thing is we are not really aware of what is outside of self, we are aware of our self interacting with outside which we interpret as outside! But for practical reasons it makes sense to split mental processing into different areas. One example would be to use a three tiered level of; * space realm - temporal, spirit * mind realm - corporeal representation, spatial * abstract realm - mental, emotional While its all the same system of awareness, it probably uses different circuitry in the brain. Some people might have an ability to integrate visual processing (like in dreams) to different senses to work with such concepts. I dont think anyone is trying to 'define' reality by doing this sort of thing, rather have a greater experience of it or try to refine the experience for some nature of benefit. I agree though we must stay firmly anchored in the science of reality, and for me Jediism does heavily incorporate science and scientific discovery to shape how we can better experience reality.
    • What are your opinions about euthanasia? (Last post by Adder)
    • My thoughts are it should be only allowed to people who have a terminal disease which is progressing, and has evident associated symptoms impacting quality of life. I know living is terminal too, but living is not a diseased state of living lol, hmmm. I don't think anyone should be forced to experience a painful terminal collapse of the body if that is what is happening to them. If someone does not fit my classification, and really wants to die, then they will find a way. Unfortunately for them, a solution to their manic depression, chronic pain etc might be around the corner, so if its not progressed and terminal, then all efforts IMO should be on survival at any cost. I have stuff in my medicine cabinet which can blow my flame out, so its not like it's impossible to do it. The issue isn't who should be allowed to end their own life, its about at what point can the medical establishment end someones life for them. It needs to also make sure it cannot be abused from within the medical establishment by staff working in grey areas of ethics or the shadows around the law. These are just my thoughts though, its a personal thing for the family who usually know the person best. Perhaps it needs to include close friends if possible who aren't beneficiary's to any monies or property to avoid manipulation, or long term care... so staff can make determinations about that persons character and falling quality of life - as oppossed to moods, mental state or psychological conditions. The dangerzone for this topic is the psychological side - when is a person 'capable' of making such a decision. Here there is a high profile story at the moment which has seen; Quote: "On 23 July 2014 the Australian Medical Board voted to use emergency powers to suspend his practitioner's license immediately, on the grounds that he presents "a serious risk to public health and safety". Dr Nitschke said he would appeal the suspension, which he claimed was "politically motivated"." because; Quote: "Perth man Nigel Brayley, 45, died in May this year after taking the euthanasia drug Nembutal, which he illegally imported. In emails obtained by the ABC, Mr Brayley admitted to Dr Nitschke he was not "supporting a terminal medical illness", but said he was "suffering". Now Dr Nitschke is being accused of moving into uncharted territory by agreeing to assist Mr Brayley despite knowing he was not terminally ill." source
    • Live Service - Saturday 26th July at 2000 UTC (Last post by MCSH)
    • I'll be conducting a live service on Saturday 26th July at 2000 UTC. The sermon part of this live service would be available as a normal sermon for everyone to read. To find out what this time would be on your timezone click here.
    • Cognitive Dissonance - Your Thoughts (Last post by Rickie The Grey)
    • Well it seems to me knowing yourself: likes, dislikes, desires and expectations would be helpfull? Then knowing your limits while working to expand them would keep dissonance to a minimum? I think it's all about: living, learning and becoming a better person. Don't get hung up on your flaws and keep on keeping on.
    • Words Mean Things. (Last post by Jestor)
    • Quote: In type, you should strive to be more clear, if anything, as there is not context of voice inflection, body language, etc. In type, it much more easy to misunderstand something, hence, to be as clear as possible and non subjective with your words will open more doors then close them. Of course... But if I think I'm clear, and as clear as I can be, and still not getting through, it can't be helped... And, an individual should realize that not everyone is going to understand what someone else is saying so further questioning should be done...:) Quote: It goes against the argument of subjectivity really. Such as this... Would you explain? This is just another point where people get separated... The "prickly" people, and the "goo" people.... :lol:....
    • Another XKCD- Answers (Last post by Vusuki)
    • Not sure where to put this- so thought I'd just add it here. Just a bit of a fun poke at star wars www.xkcd.com/1397/ Don't turn it on.
    • Unacceptable Casualties of War (Last post by Deepseablue)
    • Quote: Czech Airlines were not flying from Seoul to Prague above Ukraine. Only above Russia. We have arrived safely in Prague. Good for you! I wouldn't have wanted to be anyone anywhere near Ukraine in the days after the "crash."
    • Well, I thought I would make a few suggestions... (Last post by Proteus)
    • The shoutbox was a 3rd party code which ren was managing when he was admin but took it down after the site's update due to some kind of compatibility or functional issues and never finished fixing it back up. Whatever its condition was when he left, I forgot, but I can check and see if there's anything we can do about it.

There are 239 visitors, 6 guests and 21 members online (one is in chat): Br. John, Octagon, RyuJin, Nakis, Adder, Brian, Desolous, Psyddhattha, Luthien, MJ Hannigan, scott777ab, Brenna, Buvan, Llama Su, Archon, zeronycon, wesleycook74, Jamie Stick, Calanon, SMullinax, Cabur Senaar, KalSterner, TambelSadera, Carrotunlimited, porkapon763, rosewood67.

Follow Us