Good and Bad Exist?

Moderators: Adder, Desolous

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 08:48 #47248

Good and evil exist in nature.
They exist as one.
Thinking separates.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 09:16 #47252

ichange wrote:
Good and evil exist in nature.
They exist as one.
Thinking separates.

Interesting concept because I believe:

Good and Evil do not exist in nature...
Neither Exist,
Thinking Creates Them!

Let me add - Humans thinking creates them!
Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice: Jedi Knight Arcade
Current Apprentices: Jedi_Roz

Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!

"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker

“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn
Last Edit: 06 Jan 2012 09:18 by Phortis Nespin.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 10:26 #47261

  • Adder
  • Adder's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Knight
  • ID: 7778
Phortis Nespin wrote:
Let me add - Humans thinking creates them!

Do you exclude other animals because you think they cannot comprehend the suffering of others or do you think they are incapable of evil?

I wonder because I dont think its just humans... I extend a capacity for evil to all animals. I'm not sure about insects yet. My cat (and dogs I've known) can be what I consider evil. I know it's instinct is to hunt to eat, but it routinely tries to practise hunting for fun. Training is good to an extent, but it doesnt really care between the pain and suffering of its victim and so for me that selfishness is comparible to evil. Many animals cause pain and suffering for their own amusement because its a challenge and I think instinctually predators sense the need to kill prey at every opportunity to avoid periods when no prey is available. The key is I think they are smart enough to control themselves and decide not too.
Last Edit: 06 Jan 2012 10:29 by Adder.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:00 #47264

I know that animals have feelings; and, I am certain all intelligent life perceives at least some array of emotion. But I do not feel that all animals perceive good and evil.

These are concepts of morality are based on a dualistic structure. Free will has been accredited with the creation of concepts associated with positive and negative influences. Social acceptance governs the terms that regulate the combining of actions into the moral structure of what is good and what is evil. And what is good in one culture is sometimes not in another.

All life has free will. All life has intelligence. But a complete understanding of each creatures social structure is still foreign to us. So, I believe it is a bit presumptuous for us to associate human characteristics to things we do not fully comprehend.

Yes, there are events which to us seem to cause emotional responses in the behavior of animals; both positive and negative. And I believe the animals understand the difference between joy and sadness, love and hate. But do they see certain events, behaviors and actions as good or evil... probably not. And not because they are not capable of such a level of experience but because they are most likely not experiencing life with the same social structures as us.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:04 #47265

I have pondered the question of whether animals are good or evil and have come to the conclusion that they are not. Animals are capable of so many "emotions" that are similar to that of humans. Dolphins are a prime example of extending emotion towards humans who have had emergencies while in the ocean. And although other animals, especially dogs and cats, have what seem to be human type emotions, I believe they are more instinctual than learned.

I believe what seems like emotion is just a response to a set of circumstances that trigger a instinctual response to display "happy", "sad", "anger", or "fear". I do not believe that nature can be evil or good because they are what they are. It is the human intervention that causes the basic animal to change its response to its surroundings or environment. Besides, if we believe that the Force is not good or evil, and it is our human nature to put labels to things, than???

Believe me, I am on a shaky ledge on this issue so don't beat me up too bad on it. But if I understand what I have been reading, I side with animals are just doing what they do.
Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice: Jedi Knight Arcade
Current Apprentices: Jedi_Roz

Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!

"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker

“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:16 #47267

  • Adder
  • Adder's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Knight
  • ID: 7778
Yeah I wouldnt be so presumptious to call any particular animal 'evil' as that sort of judgement would have to be an exageration, but I do have the personal opinion many (possibly all) animals have the capacity for evil behaviours - certainly not all types of evil behaviours, but things like my example above of unnecessarily causing pain and suffering to another creature. I guess you could say I think animals have a light or dark path to choose from just like us!

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:32 #47271

I think that all the points discussed are valid. And I agree that animals do things that we consider to be good or evil. And I know that an animal senses when it has done what others perceive as bad. I have seen this every time my dog has an accident in the floor and I give her the “evil eye” :P

I was merely saying that I don't think animals perceive their own actions as good or bad, or the actions of other animals as good or bad; because, I view those as human inventions.

But hey, I could be completely wrong! I am just drawing from what I have experienced. And I would love to set down and discus philosophy with an animal or insect or plant. And I'm not being sarcastic. I would love to know just what does go on in their minds. And maybe someday we will be able to!

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 11:41 #47272

  • Adder
  • Adder's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Knight
  • ID: 7778
Wescli Wardest wrote:
I was merely saying that I don't think animals perceive their own actions as good or bad, or the actions of other animals as good or bad; because, I view those as human inventions.

Ahh ok, interesting. I guess I view concepts of evil as objective (if thats the right word) and linked to spirituality through physical welfare, wheras good and bad are more subjective, for me evil is at another level and any living creature would (might) have the ability to have a connection to it (the Force) by virtue of being sentient. I do feel though that animals have a harder time reaching a level of understanding of the Force because they are seemingly so much more driven by instinct then humans.

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 12:08 #47275

Why is it that every time I think of good and evil, it draws me back to the Dungeons and Dragons game? Good, Evil, Neutral Good, Neutral evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil, etc.

Then another though occurred, good vs bad is different from GOOD vs EVIL.

Some children are bad and some are good, but an evil child gets exorcized.:P
Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice: Jedi Knight Arcade
Current Apprentices: Jedi_Roz

Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!

"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker

“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn

Re: Good and Bad Exist? 06 Jan 2012 19:37 #47291

Lmao!! That's clever!
Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • Hell Fire (Last post by Adder)
    • Both states as described above seem accessible while alive as experiences, perhaps only briefly, but I guess we'll never now if they exist as permanent strata's which some part of us join after death. I do notice they seem to conveniently represent the two polar extremes of physical existence, on one end a bliss so intense it tends to best compare almost as a type of fire, and on the other a pain so intense it dissolves ones very essence.... so I'm not sure it's anything more then a projection and fantasy from those who have tasted those extreme states of mind/spirit/body. Then again anything outside our capacity to experience might well be expected to be represented as those extremities - and need not mean they are not generated from something outside our sensory capacities. I guess an interesting question could be would you want to experience them both while alive, briefly, and why... what would you do with that knowledge!?
    • "The Interview" gets pulled (Last post by Adder)
    • There are quite a few movies out there with US Presidents being killed and/or attempted to be killed, usually not intended to be comedies, but each person viewing something can take different things from it. I thought the humour was in the manner of the attempt by the leading actors who are comedians, and I'm not even sure it portrays an actual successful assassination? I'd have to see it to make judgement on it.
    • From time to time a poem (Last post by Silvermane)
    • Play in the river, Until the moon comes out. Lay in the grass, Snout to snout. A tail of strength, Shining so bold. Wrapped with another, Soft and reddish gold. True lovers forever, With tails so grand. The Otter of the River, And The Fox of the Land.
    • 2014 New Year's Force Realist Meditation Relay (Last post by Alethea Thompson)
    • Updated: OUR LIST SO FAR, STILL NEED HOURS COVERED. :) 31 DEC 2014 10-11AM UTC - 11-NOON UTC - NOON-1PM UTC - Chris Porter 1-2PM UTC - Jenna 2-3PM UTC - 3-4PM UTC - 4-5PM UTC - Silmerion 5-6PM UTC - 6-7PM UTC - 7-8PM UTC - Jacob 8-9PM UTC - Sinistra, Shlomit 9-10PM UTC - Simen 10-11PM UTC - 11-MIDNIGHT UTC - Jamie Easting 1 JAN 2014 MIDNIGHT-1AM UTC - Rick Laws 1-2AM UTC - 2-3AM UTC - 3-4AM UTC - 4-5AM UTC - Casper 5-6AM UTC - Lori 6-7AM UTC - 7-8AM UTC - 8-9AM UTC - 9-10AM UTC -
    • Rants far and wide (Last post by Kaverael)
    • Quote: I am frustrated... Coming out is not as simple as telling people you're gay, bisexual, pansexual; transgender, genderqueer, genderfluid, or whatever the case may be. Coming out is an entire process of the people around you coming to terms with the implications of their assumptions about you being incorrect. Coming out is the painful process of being misgendered, having people ask inappropriate questions, and several other microaggressions that make everyday interactions painful. For this and many other reasons, coming out is a really scary experience that isn't at all as simple as what most of the media portrayals make it out to be. Last night I was reduced to terrified ugly sobbing when I realized that my Christmas would be spent either quietly being misgendered and misnamed or in intense conversations with relatives about what it means to be trans and pansexual. I don't do well with being quiet about being misgendered, I usually (at the very least) do something passive-aggressive in response. I had hoped that my Christmas would be at least somewhat relaxing, that I would get a break from the stresses of work and school, but I'm only going to have to trade one kind of stress for another. And I feel like it's all my fault, like I'm ruining my family's Christmas by being this difficult black sheep of the family. I know my mother wanted so badly for me to go to Minnesota for Christmas, but I'm regretting ever agreeing to go. My mother just informed me last night that I'd be spending Christmas Eve with someone from Uganda and I'm afraid that I'm going to have to explain all kinds of things to him, but additionally that Christmas Day will be spent with a bunch of children ranging from the ages of 2-17 and I'm not emotionally or mentally prepared to try to explain all this stuff to children, much less their parents. If it weren't for the fact that I'm not the kind of person to break promises, because I don't know what I am if people can't trust my word, I would just miss the flight to Minneapolis and that would be the end of it. I have enough groceries to make it through Christmas week. It's too late for that though, I've made promises and built up expectations about my arrival, therefore I cannot back out now. I regret it and I should have known. My apprenticeship studies included a lesson of meditation and contemplation about family relations, the answer was within me all along. I've spent my whole life trying to please my parents and with this Christmas thing I tried to please them then too. I've made a huge mistake and now I'm going to pay for it. Jamie, It sounds like your family is really looking forward to seeing you, so maybe they will just be happy you showed up. If you don't want to talk about your situation, try changing the subject, like "I know you have questions, but Mom/Aunt Lucy/Uncle Bob/whomever, is not comfortable hearing this stuff, especially during the holidays. Maybe we can get to get together and discuss it some other time. Let's focus on why we are all really here; to spend time with the ones we love," and just move on. You are who you are, so be that person, it's not like you are a leper. Show up with a smile, and a good attitude. I think that the more you stress about it, the more others will feed off of that stress, in a negative way. MTFBWY -Rick
    • Taoism (Last post by Rickie The Grey)
    • Quote: Lessons Everyone you meet whether wise or foolish, has something to teach you. The sage appreciates everyone and everything, accepting the lessons offered by each in their own way. - Lao Fzu pg 7 www.taowoods.org/quote/index.htm?focus=7 :) Have a nice weekend.
    • Meditation Comes With a Price (Last post by Cyan Sarden)
    • Quote: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719544/ I remember a post about Shamanism and Mental Illness patients. I actually posted it at Force Academy. Last night, a long time member posted that he has been reading up on these sorts of things and posted the above link. In this article, it actually makes a case AGAINST meditation. I would be curious to see your thoughts. :) The conclusion deems meditation to be helpful and practical and tries to encourage medical professionals to educate themselves so they can apply the techniques better. It also says that strategies used for meditation are already present in modern psychology, making meditation compatible with treatments that are already being used in the field. As Arkayik already said: a de-mystification of meditation doesn't hurt. To me, meditation doesn't have a mystical side, never had.

There are 299 visitors, 4 guests and 15 members online (one in chat): Zanthan Storm, Priwen, Jestor, Adder, Proteus, Elemental Harmony, Vesha, Kamizu, ChillBroBaggins, Silvermane, Cabur Senaar, Revan Falton, Tarran, Ryno, Peej16870, Password is Taco, Keran Doshe, Veran_Seawolf.

Follow Us