Should Jedi (when of age) have CHILDREN??

Moderators: Adder, Adhara

Re: Should Jedi (when of age) have CHILDREN?? 23 Dec 2011 11:20 #46481

Learn_to_Know wrote:
However, I'm not ready to subscribe to the idea that Jedi should have children. There is much that a Jedi can do in their service and compassion to others that doesn't have to involve raising their own. Perhaps even seeking out those children that are in a less fortunate position and helping them in some way?


As a matter of semantics, should and must are not the same. Jedi should have children but not all have the capacity or capability at this time in their life. I would also point out that working with any child is a form of parenting. If you have a desire to help other children that is wonderful. As a past PTA member I worked with many children in the school. I was also a Scout Master for several years.

In any one of these cases, you are raising children, you just are not paying for their cloths so to speak. Your influence on a child has an effect on them that lasts a lifetime. I have children I worked with 10 years ago saying hi to me in the grocery store. I wish I could remember all their names. They remember me because of the time I took to teach them how to read, or make paper, or chalk. I, in a very real sense, took an active part in raising that child.

So...raise your own or raise others? Either way be a positive role model!
Jedi Knight
Deacon of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Master: Mark Anjuu
Former Apprentice: Jedi Knight Arcade
Current Apprentice:Mathew Erickson

Read what I wrote not with your emotion and interpretation, but with mine!

"Right and wrong, good and evil, light and dark most of the time, they are illusions that prevent us from perceiving the greater reality. The Jedi have learned to distance themselves from these illusions, to seek the truth beneath the words"
Luke Skywalker

“Selflessness is the only antidote to evil. It provides the light that destroys the dark.”
Corran Horn
The following user(s) said Thank You: Learn_To_Know, Desolous

Re: Should Jedi (when of age) have CHILDREN?? 23 Dec 2011 12:16 #46484

Sapadu wrote:
'HAH!' Kendalina guffawed. Immediately, Jack should have known the Vader quote would upset her, 'Redemption for killing, what, THOUSANDS of people, just because he got that stupid b**** senator from Naboo knocked up and she popped out TWO kids? How is that redeeming in the SLIGHTEST?'

"Kendalina, you're not helping your case when I try to defend you as a pro-feminist model." Jack mumbled.

'No, I'm serious. The mother is the one who did all the work, Vader didn't play ANY role in how they grew up -- what with never BEING there or even being AWARE the children had been born or survived -- and he didn't get his head out of his @$$ until the very last second.' Kendalina fumed. Triclops didn't say a word, merely sitting by and knitting, 'And your children being the best of you? KARK THAT! That's just lazy, relying on a kid to justify your existence. You should be a good person on your OWN! Lookit Jango Fett! Having Boba Fett didn't redeem him. Or the Emperor for that matter -- 'cuz, y'know, HE was such a great person because of Trike!'

'The Emperor didn't have kids!' Interrupted Kakeru, in a very Star Trek-not-knowing-Star-Wars-lore sort of voice.

'Sure he did -- but it was in cloning experiments kinda like the Jango/Boba Fett crossed with Frankenstein way.' James snapped back, fanboy to the core. Tired of the argument, Triclops sighed.

'Maybe the real lesson is Vader's ability to love.' It certainly shut everyone up, 'He turned to the Dark Side because the obsessive, violent part of his love for his wife turned into possessiveness. What redeems him is the fact that he loves his son enough to save that son.'

"I like her passion, but I think we disagree on the word redeem," LTK said quietly.

His Force Conscience paused momentarily before prompting softly, "What does redeem mean to you?"

LTK contemplated carefully, debating within himself how to best phrase it. Not being entirely sure of his choice of words, he proceeded cautiously.

"I look at redeem in this scenario with Vader as simply a desire to not repeat the same mistakes again." LTK paused a moment, feeling like he wasn't being as clear as he desired. "He finally turned his back on the darkness, and it was because of the suffering of his son, what he was witnessing that spurred him on. His child may not have redeemed him from his past evils, but he certainly effected a huge change on Vader as he turned against the embodiment of evil. That is kind of like redemption, isn't?"

His Force Conscience nodded sagely, but was somewhat disappointed at LTK's struggling to explain a concept that should be clear and concise. "What about her comment about using a kid to justify your existence. I believe she said you should be a good person on your own, not just because you have a kid."

LTK quickly replied, "I agree with her there. We should be a good person on our own. To have to rely on children to be good would be an attachment a Jedi shouldn't have."

His Force Conscience smiled delightedly. "She is definitely right. And you are on your way to understanding this, possibly as well as she already does. But one thing shouldn't be forgotten: understand that you should be a good person on your own, you should strive to be an even better person when guarding and training a light that comes from the Force."
Master: Jestor
Apprentice: Psyddhattha
“I have striven not to laugh at human actions, not to weep at them, nor to hate them, but to understand them" -- Baruch Spinoza.

Re: Should Jedi (when of age) have CHILDREN?? 23 Dec 2011 14:41 #46488

  • Leena
  • Leena's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Apprentice
  • ID: 1965
I must say I like the question a lot. I agree with Phortis Nespin on this as far as the answer. I would love to have children and plan to when I find the right man to have them with. Now, aside from work, I have taught kids, mentored, and other things. It's so important to be a positive role model.

As for redeeming, that's an interesting point. Can that act of saving his son redeem Vader? Well, acording to some religions, yes. In Islam, I believe Muhammad said that if you do a bad deed followed by a good deed, the good deed will wipe out the bad one. In Christianity, Jesus' sacrifice redeems any who accept him and repent. Is everyone redeemed by their children, no. I think perhaps Vader was. Honestly, their mother didn't do all the work. She had the children and died. They were each raised by different people. It is a testament to Anakin Skywalker that even after he became Darth Vader and didn't know his kids, he still saved Luke's life and, ultimately, sacrificed his own.
Leena
“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. ” Eric Hoffer
Master: Mark Anjuu
The following user(s) said Thank You: Learn_To_Know

Re: Should Jedi (when of age) have CHILDREN?? 23 Dec 2011 23:20 #46494

  • RyuJin
  • RyuJin's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Knight
  • Priest
  • ID: 3037
i say, let things happen as they must... if one is meant to have children it will happen (whether they plan to or not). whether we have children or not we should still provide a positive rolemodel to all(adult and children alike).
I do not need a cloak of darkness, I am darkness and I am light. I am both because the universe is both.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

J.l.lawson, knight, b.div, o.c.p
Intake officer, Eastern Studies S.I.G advisor
Former masters: GM KanaSeikoHaruki, Br.John
Current apprentices: Kalkho, Raikoutenshi, Zenchi, Jacen Solo(on hiatus)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Learn_To_Know

Re: Should Jedi (when of age) have CHILDREN?? 24 Dec 2011 03:24 #46495

I have 3 daughters and a gran daughter, they are my life!!!

Re: Should Jedi (when of age) have CHILDREN?? 24 Dec 2011 03:59 #46496

I have three fantastic children, I can't think of life without them now.

When my 1st one was on the way I was so very worried as I was not sure I was ready to be a dad, but when are we ever ready ???

Re: Should Jedi (when of age) have CHILDREN?? 24 Dec 2011 16:33 #46502

I don't really agree with Lucas that the point of life is having children- that's what a virus does, not more complex living things. We are more than our children.

However, I am a father myself, and can see the arguments for and against it in my own experiences. Parenting is a valuable teaching experience, and can be a great joy and fulfillment. However, your own body and mind does attempt to betray you and cause you to instinctively center on them. It has proven genetically valuable, but may not be the wisest course of action for a Jedi.

Through application of will, I have gotten to a place where I love my children, but feel no attachment to them, and do not revolve my life around them. Not many parents do all three of those things.

Saying Jedi should have children is something of a loaded statement to something that has advantages and disadvantages. I would say Jedi should be allowed to have children.
Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • Too much focus on individual words? (Last post by Rickie The Grey)
    • Quote: I "feel", that as Jedi, we should strive to look at the message rather than the messenger. The words are important but they are just the vehicle. Conversations might go smoother and be more enlightening if we looked at them that way. I agree. Quote: This "focus on individual words" is not a negative I'm not saying that either. Relying just on words is not enough for understanding to take place. Quote: No amount of "feeling" will help us communicate clearly and accurately, because feeling is subjective. Exactly. Subjective is feeling. We can understand things subjectively. Words evoke feelings. Feeling that help us understand. Too much focus on just words limits understanding. IMHO You can't learn about the living force with more and more words. You need to feel it to learn it. Words have limits the force is unlimited. It is a subjective experience.
    • There is no Death (Last post by Streen)
    • I'm glad you found this thread useful, WRThore :) The original idea has very much changed my life and how I look at...well..life. Whatever the hell THAT is, LOL. A lot of things have been clicking into place in my mind that incorporate this sort of concept. It's Zen. Plays tricks with your mind, haha!
    • Be water, my friend (Last post by tzb)
    • Quote: Ah, I forgot to mention where I got that quote... It's from a book called Everyday Tao by Deng Ming-Dao Love that book. Thanks for sharing.
    • Insight Timer app for meditation (Last post by tzb)
    • Quote: Why do you all like this? It's useful. Traditionally monks would meditate with someone to ring a gong or bell to tell them when it was time to finish, this is a modern, technological equivalent you can carry around in your pocket. Also like anything else, tracking one's progress helps to build and reinforce the meditation habit. I have Meditation Helper set so if I haven't completed a meditation by a certain time of day, it notifies me as a reminder. Given the number of times before I had it I'd intend to meditate and then forget until I was too tired, that's pretty handy.
    • Course Comms (Last post by tzb)
    • Discussion 8 - Woman as Temptress now available: www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/the-h...8-woman-as-temptress PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THE COURSE COMMS THREAD
    • Discussion 8 - Woman as Temptress (Last post by tzb)
    • [image] We left our hero... meeting with the goddess, a powerful feminine force which gives their quest new light and hope. But not all feminine forces are positive. Will the next figure on their road be a friend or foe? After the previous topic, where the feminine force was a power the hero admired (or feared), this stage presents a fairly typical lesson about human nature: the hero begins to desire the feminine and wishes to make it his own. The hero is tempted. Interestingly however the typical mythic cycle does not reflect this as a failing on the part of the hero; rather, they posit the woman (either the Goddess of the prior stage or another feminine presence) as a temptress, guilty for alluring our protagonist from the path of their quest. Therefore the female force is presented mythically as both powerful enough to raise the woman to the position of a goddess, and insidious enough to lower her to the position of a temptress. [image] The most familiar example of this archetype is what we now refer to as the Femme Fatale. Present in much world literature (including the familiar figures of Lilith, the Sirens, Aphrodite, and Helen of Troy), Femme Fatales are seemingly wonderful figures who hide a dark secret - or perhaps reveal a darker side of the hero's nature. In modern storytelling the term Femme Fatale has become synonymous with the beautiful but conniving female leads of Film Noir stories, usually mysterious women who entrap, trick or otherwise manipulate the smitten hero. In Film Noir, Femme Fatales are often the cause of the hero's downfall. Often this is precisely because of the hero's good nature - they want to save the "damsel in distress", even to the point of committing atrocities. What they don't realise is she may not be as helpless as she appears. The narration of this video is sort of hilarious. The Hero's Journey is a transformative quest, as much about the growth of the hero as the situations they experience, or their underlying motive for acting. As such an experience of temptation is an essential "test" for the hero - a trial which reveals them as greater than their baser desires. Sometimes monomythic stories have no temptress as such, but merely place an item or idea in front of the hero which they want, badly. Temptation in general is a universal human theme - who among us hasn't been tempted by something we desire? When an adventure seems difficult or dark, who hasn't desired or been tempted to quit? The key lesson of this stage of the hero's journey is that not all enemies are dragons; they will have to battle their own flaws, their own weaknesses and their own demons. This transforming understanding of the obstacles they face is a crucial part of the hero's journey towards maturity. Sometimes the obstacle is our own selves - and other times it will look too good to be true. [image] It usually is. Quote: Generally we refuse to admit within ourselves, or within our friends, the fullness of that pushing, self-protective, malodorous, carnivorous, lecherous fever which is the very nature of the organic cell. Rather, we tend to perfume, whitewash, and reinterpret; meanwhile imagining that all the flies in the ointment, all the hairs in the soup, are the faults of some unpleasant someone else. But when it suddenly dawns on us, or is forced to our attention, that everything we think or do is necessarily tainted with the odor of the flesh, then, not uncommonly, there is experienced a moment of revulsion: life, the acts of life, the organs of life, woman in particular as the great symbol of life, become intolerable to the pure, the pure, pure soul. From The Hero with a Thousand Faces Examples Spoiler: * Gilgamesh: Siduri tries to tempt Gilgamesh away from his journey, telling him it is futile * The Odyssey: Calpso protects Odysseus but forces him to stay on her island. Circe also fits this mould somewhat * The Enlightenment of Buddha: Buddha faces continual temptation whilst beneath the bodhi tree, including "three voluptuous women" * The Crucifixion of Jesus: Mary Magdelene is present at Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. Through much of history she has been painted as a sinful influence in Jesus' life * Beowulf: Beowulf gains great praise for his deeds and Hrothgar warns him about being tempted to pride, rather than remembering the role of god in his victory * The Theft of Thor's Hammer: The appearance of Thrym's sister demanding a bridal fee is an example of a female presence nearly pulling an adventure off course * King Arthur: Guinevere's dalliance with Lancelot threatens to destroy the harmony of Arthur's kingdom * The Lord of the Rings: Galadriel considers taking the ring and using its power * Star Wars Episode IV: Han and Luke compete over Leia's affections, Luke and Leia kiss (ew) * The Karate Kid: Daniel sees Ali kissing Johnny and is hurt by it * The Lion King: Nala makes Simba act like a horny teenager * The Matrix: Cypher is tempted by Agent Smith's offer of reinsertion into the Matrix - a "new life" away from the hardships of the Nebuchadnezzar's quest * Harry Potter: Harry sees his parents in the Mirror of Erised (another interesting subversion of the convention) Questions Spoiler: * What have been some of the major temptations in your life? How did you overcome them? Did they affect the course of your adventures? * Women are specifically mentioned at this stage of the Monomyth, but not men. What does this imply? How do you feel about your answer? * "The female force is presented mythically as both powerful enough to raise the woman to the position of a goddess, and indsidious enough to lower her to the position of a temptress." Why do you think this is? * What are some of the temptations which may lead a Jedi off their chosen path? Think particularly of the reference to Femmes Fatales using the hero's good nature against them, presenting an image of helplessness whilst secretly controlling the hero. Can you think of examples of where this type of situation might befall Jedi? How do we guard against it? Can we? Next: Atonement with the Father (Available Wednesday 5th November)
    • Critical Thinking! (Last post by Rosalyn J)
    • Its funny you should mention this topic because as a University faculty member, many of the students I teach are not prepared to be critical thinkers once they get to university, so the first year is sort of a boot camp of sorts and inevitably people fall through the cracks because they don't have the foundation. Current public education systems, at least in America, are places of indoctrination. Follow the rules, say the correct answer, get the reinforcement (good grades). This is an unfortunate reality and part and parcel why a world class university education still is by and large an elite endevour. Can't have the "masses" thinking critically.
    • Yoga (Last post by Dessel761)
    • I would like to start doing some yoga at home. That being said, does anyone know of any good apps or videos to help with this?
    • Tattoos and Jedi? (Last post by Learn_To_Know)
    • Quote: Quote: I would never want my wife or kids to gauge their ears! Looks nasty in my opinion, haha. But to each their own. If the kids want to do that someday, it's their ears! lol... "Gauge up" doesn't just mean those huge earring, lol.... Standard earrings are 16 or 14 gauge... Those are like the size you would pierce an ear with a starter stud... I think I'm at a 12 gauge right now... Just a little bigger.... eyeballing a 10...;) Picture a guy wearing little dainty gold hoops, and then one wearing a set a little bit thicker, lol.... Shows what I know, haha. When someone says "gauge their ears" I picture this: [attachment] [attachment] That just don't do it for me! haha.. To each their own!

There are 163 visitors, 10 guests and 29 members online (2  are in chat): Akkarin, Br. John, Zanthan Storm, steamboat28, Streen, Jestor, ren, Kitsu Tails, Joe, Connor L., Darren, Proteus, Alexandre Orion, Rosalyn J, Alan, Clone_Warrior, Williamkaede, Kamizu, Edan, Silvermane, tzb, babyblueyes247, Calanon, Ecthalion, taidavrikaurvan, Revan Falton, GalUnDrux, Tarran, Mos-An Hobel, Andrew Miller, Vanduul, firewalkerx, Cyan Sarden, ThorlakurThor, den385, fredogaston, ChrisPeppas, Devcalner.

Follow Us