Declining Student Resilience: A Serious Problem for Colleges

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8 years 5 months ago #204359 by Breeze el Tierno
Have a read: Declining Student Resilience: A Serious Problem for Colleges

Moving the discussion out of academia, how might this inform Master/Apprentice relationships? Any thoughts?

Please keep discussion civil. Thanks.
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8 years 5 months ago - 8 years 5 months ago #204372 by RyuJin
this is what happens when everyone gets a participation medal, when coaches are forced to let everyone make the team, when everyone is special....

as syndrome said in the incredibles:"when everyone is super, nobody is"....

kids today don't get punished as severely, they get pampered and sheltered from the harshness of the real world...the only way to build strength is through conflict/competition...the more one endures the more resilient they become....

success lies not in never failing, but in how many times we fail and keep trying...

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J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Last edit: 8 years 5 months ago by RyuJin.
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8 years 5 months ago #204398 by
This issue seems perennial. Each semester I overhear my colleagues complaining about their students and student complaints about faculty and the kind and quantity of work required in their classes. My high expectations of student work (quantity and quality) are clearly listed in the syllabus and I repeat these expectations often in the classroom. In the first class of each semester I explain how the syllabus is a contract: if you (the student) take the class then your attendance is implied consent to fulfill the course's expectations and requirements. I teach in a community college so there are no pre-requisites for any course. The courses are inexpensive and the schedule for dropping without financial penalty are generous. Dropping percentage rates in my classes has remained fairly consistent over the past twelve years. I encourage students to stick it out and I promise to help them succeed, but they have to make the effort.

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8 years 5 months ago #204400 by MadHatter
This is one of those topics that bring out the flaws in my character. I have so little patience and time for such behavior among my fellow students that its a chore some days just to keep my mouth shut. I am attending college on my GI bill and see this all the time. People always looking for things outside of themselves to blame. Its sad and its frustrating. I just want to shake them and tell them the real world does not care about their struggles. That the real world only cares what you can provide it.

Effort, good intentions, trying hard, none of those things matter to the real world. In reality you succeed or you fail there is no middle ground. To quote Yoda: "Do or Do Not there is no Try". And its OK. Its fine to fail. I've failed plenty and so what? Its only bad if you let it derail you to the point of giving up. Heck even then it could be good. Failing two semesters ago was the wake up I needed that the degree path I was on didn't hold enough interest for me.

I think its partly an issue of people trying to shelter kids from too much. I mean my life has never really been easy until lately. I am 30 years old and at this point I can say my life has been easy and smooth for MAYBE three or four years now. Prior to that it was an abusive childhood, then into my teens helping run the house while my mom underwent chemo and lost her leg, then I joined the military, then I got out and went into poverty looking for a job. Its been one thing after another and I am GRATEFUL for it. Its made me such a better person.

Instead of coddling kids we need examples of strength in adversity. My mom finished college on the tail end of chemo as soon as she could walk again after she lost her leg. I looked at my siblings at her graduation and told them we could never complain again. THAT is the example our youth need not bubble wrap and participation trophies.

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8 years 5 months ago #204407 by
Almost without exception, my best (and favorite) students are veterans. In general, they are committed, disciplined and curious. This is also the case with older female students: usually moms returning to or starting college now that the kids are old enough.

Most of my students learn that they have to work hard but it is just as important to work smart. Lesson Number One in all my classes is learning how to think critically. The course subject matter is the vehicle for learning critical thinking.

Because the subject matter is philosophy or religion, we have the opportunity to explore more than what is presented in the textbook. Being Jedi, I have no compunction against teaching life-lessons, sharing personal experiences and supporting an in-class atmosphere of fearlessness regarding learning and the value of the search for or discovery of wisdom.

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8 years 5 months ago - 8 years 5 months ago #204416 by Cyan Sarden
I'm at the receiving end of this discussion in two ways at the moment: I have a 3 1/2 year old son who's about to go kindergarten and I'm a teacher in secondary education.

I believe the problems we're seeing with young adults are rooted in two general trends that begin early in the kids' education process:

1. Parents who don't see it as their responsibility to actually bring up their kids or are incapable of doing so. This is left to the schools and the teachers.
2. The teachers' loss of authority in the classroom and the institutionalization of problem-solving in the classroom.

Let's use this example:

A student enters the school system somewhere between the age of 4 and 5 here in Switzerland. The parents both have to work because it's impossible to finance a family without two incomes. This family's kid had spent his first 3 years in childcare where educators can't do much more than keep the peace within the group, otherwise, parents will start complaining. Whenever there's an issue, a specialist is consulted. By the time kids enter school, 50% of them have already seen speech therapists, psychologists and councillors. While kindergarten used to be for playing, today's curriculum leaves much less time for that than some 10-20 years back. Kids are taught to write and to do basic maths right away. Classes are big because the communities' budgets are small. Order has to be established in the group, as 25-30 4-5 year olds are very hard to handle. If any of the kids are unruly or don't meet the standards, the army of therapists, psychologists and councillors is once more mobilized. If the kindergarten teacher can't establish order, the parents will go after them.

Then comes primary school - the kids start out with two foreign languages by the time they're 9. 1st and 2nd grade are taught in one single room as the education budget is limited and the number of teachers has to be kept small. The "older" kids coach the younger ones (in reality, this means that 8 year olds are deputized by the school and the teachers to keep the 7 year olds in check). If there's a problem, said army is once again mobilized. The teaches who used to be able to establish discipline in the classroom are no longer authorized to do so - if there's a problem, the specialists need to step in.

Should the parents notice that their kids come home with bloody knees or bad grades, they'll send their lawyers after the teachers. After all, the latter are obviously failing to offer the kids a decent upbringing.

Fast forward to when the kids have become young adults. They leave the mandatory school system when they're 16-18 years old and head over to secondary education, should they wish to do so. By know, they've learned (and kids ALWAYS learn, just not always what society wants them to) that lawyers are efficient tools, that psychologists can get them out of classroom time, get them out of homework, get them out of physical education, you name it. And if the young adults do badly in school, it's always the teachers' fault. So whenever things start going wrong, the cavalry is called to solve problems that used to be solved by the kids themselves.

This all may sound a bit cynical - but this is reality for a lot of kids today. As a teacher, you get used to things like these. Even when parents go after you because you had to punish their kid for not showing up in class and the headmaster siding with the parents, every single time. You really get use to things - it hits you in the face when you first start working in the field. 50% of the teachers don't last more than 2 years. Once you've passed that mark and you're still teaching, you're probably doing a few things right. You've figured out that seeing kids and young adults succeed despite all of this is worth every second of your time and fills your life with pride and happiness.

As a parent of a 3 1/2 year old, I'd love to do things differently, especially since I know how things can turn out if I don't. I'd love to spend more time with the kids. But for us, it's the same as for all other parents: we both have to work, we both come home exhausted. We're doing our best - but that won't be enough. You can only hope your kid somehow naturally adapts.

Do not look for happiness outside yourself. The awakened seek happiness inside.
Last edit: 8 years 5 months ago by Cyan Sarden.

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8 years 5 months ago #204418 by Edan

By the time kids enter school, 50% of them have already seen speech therapists, psychologists and councillors....If any of the kids are unruly or don't meet the standards, the army of therapists, psychologists and councillors is once more mobilized.


Is this really a thing?
I go into schools for 2-3 months a year and I've never seen evidence of this.. but then I'm not in the US.. perhaps it's different.

It won't let me have a blank signature ...

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8 years 5 months ago #204434 by RyuJin
hello ritalin.....for a while that stuff was being prescribed for everything...half of my sisters kids were on it....all of the ones that were on it...not very successful or resilient....the ones that never took it....thriving....

in the states it seems to be a trend...if a kid misbehaves or doesn't focus...give them some meds...when i was a kid they had corporal punishment in schools...so when i messed up at school i got paddled there...then when i got home and my mom found out i got punished at home...then when my stepdad found out i got paddled at school...he'd wear my @$$ out with a belt, switch,paddle, or anything else he could grab....punished 3 times for 1 crime....guess what i learned...don't do that again....

i failed college algebra spectacularly 3 times...

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J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)

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8 years 5 months ago #204458 by Cyan Sarden

Edan wrote:

By the time kids enter school, 50% of them have already seen speech therapists, psychologists and councillors....If any of the kids are unruly or don't meet the standards, the army of therapists, psychologists and councillors is once more mobilized.


Is this really a thing?
I go into schools for 2-3 months a year and I've never seen evidence of this.. but then I'm not in the US.. perhaps it's different.


Unfortunately, it is here in Switzerland - if a kid shows any kind of 'abnormal' behavior, the first stop is usually the school psychologist, who decides on further action.

http://www.beobachter.ch/arbeit-bildung/schule/artikel/kindergarten-und-schule_welches-kind-ist-heute-noch-normal/

A very good article, unfortunately only in German. It's actually even worse than I wrote above: statistically, 57% of all 3rd graders here have been 'treated' by specialists (speech therapists, psychologists, kinesiologists, you name it).

Do not look for happiness outside yourself. The awakened seek happiness inside.

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