Well called the pastor yesterday to explain my stance. He did this cause he wanted to introduce a apologetic ministry at the church. I had to look that up to get a proper definition and all I can say is I really felt used. But he is gonna consider my terms on a proper meeting. So I'm not even going to bother going. I went on my own free will just to talk and explain my stance but if there going to pull that kinda s**t I feel its better I dont bother anymore.

If they want to talk they know how to get ahold of me now. so just waiting for my phone to blow up soon

My perspective is they realized I cannot be persuaded to there teachings and brainwashed into believing something that to me does not exist.

Oh well, at least the rabbi I met is more open minded to my thinking and likes to learn more of our ways then anything. Also he doesnt much care for these evangical christians around here cause he warned me they push push push till you either give in or move away.

If its a christian church dont let them trick you into believing that you were born into sin. Your a human being and only you can judge your actions.

Maybe we should get one of these.

ren wrote:

*sulkily* I said sorry.....



We can't lump all Christians, nor even all those at that church.....

Everyone is different at some point... Even those you met with font agree 100% I bet....

But, it was a "us" against "them" or "him", so their similarities bound them against your difference...

Time to move on..

I understand you have been put in an awkward situation but try not to worry about it; you have your beliefs and they have theirs.

Ultimately the Force knows no difference and I believe that they are the ones who will be disappointed when the angels don't turn up, and for that I feel truly sorry for them!

This is the place to come for civil discussion, an open-minded and tolerant community where no one is shunned for what they believe!

The Force will be with you, always.

I found a site that explains the apologetic ministry pretty well I think.

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I have found that fear is a strong motivator in peoples decision making process. I do not disdain those for it but I do lament any who live in such a state.

Oh yes! The conversion conspiracy! Been there, done that! Moved on and am a better person for it! Done with the mental blockage!

this is what I'll be doing Jestor. Thank you all again for your input on the matter.

Come to think of it, maybe I should've walked in with my jedi robes, carrying my lightsaber and holding a holocron..........now that would've been a sight and talking like Yoda also.

Oh well, least its off my chest and my brain is clearer now.

May The Force Be With Us All - Always !!!!

Brian

Well, if you weren't 4 hours away, I'd offer to go up there and have a talk with him-as I am a Christian Jedi (though, I don't see it as my religion-it's my philosophy/way of life). I'd say see if he wants to talk with someone on the phone (and if you do happen to ask-I'll gladly give you my phone number to pass along to him), but honestly a face to face talk gets better results.

Most Christian's aren't about religious tolerance, they just don't get it. Though, after a discussion on FA, I wonder if they've ever been asked "Does it matter what you believe?" and then after that "Why?", proceeded with a "Now, does it matter that others believe what you believe?" and again "Why?", finally asking "If your God exists, then why does he allow all manner of other religions exist?"

My answer to the latter is that God allows them to exist so that he can discern those who truly love him, and those that do not. Someone who ventures out into other beliefs and come back on their own have a sincere love for God. Most others are simply "Churchians", and that is no way to really live your faith. You can't convert someone, if all you do is try to convert. You convert them by living the Christian life and then waiting for the Holy Spirit to present you with an opportunity to plant a seed. God does the converting. You're just the medium.

Feel free to steal anything out of this post, or even all of it.

This comment here is not intended for any offense toward any Christians here. It is simply an observation and a view that I have been learning about slowly, more and more through the years and simply reflects that learning.

Christianity from my point of experiencing and watching it, both inside the box and later, outside the box, has come to express, in many places I've lived, more as an institution than just a personal belief. As Alan Watts has talked about in certain articles, it is a monarchical religion, and reflects a system in which the followers are servants of a "king" who "protect the king and his throne" from ever being questioned and threatened. There are a great number of people in America (and probably in other countries as well) who seem to follow Christianity as only because it is a trend and not because it is actually what they believe. Many people think that if they don't follow the major trend, that those around them will condemn them (and many do unfortunately).

What really makes me think about things, is the idea of the "preacher who quits the church" (and I'll explain why this seems important to me). There have been many former Christians who have worked for their church's clergy, who, after a point, begin coming to more and more of a personal conclusion about exactly what in the bible is not literally true. They do come to discover a great deal of factual history surrounding the bible and then come to realize how the bible is used and interpreted by the church to sway the church's followers into certain frames of mind. Once he discovers so much of this, he cannot bear continuing to do what he has done any longer and quits the clergy. However, sometimes I come to suspect that certain people like Christian preachers, may actually already know factually what the bible is and what the bible is not. However, their goal with the church, as an institution is no more a personal one, but rather ... well, an institutional one. For all you know, he could be completely and utterly aware of reality as, say, a pure land Jedi might see it, for example, but will never reveal such a thing. In turn, having now existing outside of the box, he may use this knowledge to further power clever ways of using Christianity to fulfill the church's institutional goals, including how to word and phrase things that he has learned triggers people more and more into conviction toward his denomination of Christianity. Not only that, but this knowledge and awareness gives him a very acute advantage toward outsiders who come to debate against Christianity. Seeing as how the preacher is not living inside the Christian "box", and actually knows the various weak points that exist both inside and outside of it, he learns how to block out outsider's "ammo", and even how to turn their own words against the outsider. I've actually watched this happen several times with a guy who ran a Christian coffeehouse. He loved to debate because he knew, psychologically how to turn anybody's words around on them to diffuse any point they attempt to make.

Anyway, like I said, this is simply an observation I've had. And who knows, maybe I'm way behind the progress line of awareness of this view among many Jedi here at this temple about it, but I still find it a pretty legitimate thing to consider when confronting a dedicated follower of Christianity and the church.