An Unpopular Conviction

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An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 10:00 #48707

This is one of my greatest moral convictions which has brought me endless ridicule, criticism, and controversy. However, it would be morally wrong of me to obscure and withhold truth for my own convenience, comfort, or even safety.

So here we go. I believe that reproduction is morally wrong. It brings misery on the living and the unborn. Since the human race began, it has been a tool to oppress women. It forces life upon the unborn, and life is merely varying degrees of misery. I was born and had to deal with fear, pain, anger, death, and other negative things my whole life, all of it forced upon me, and so have all of you. Just because an injustice falls upon every single person does not make it any less of an injustice.

Before any of you say that I am trying to form a nihilistic death cult, think about what you are saying. Do you think that a soul's existence begins with biological life, or anything material for that matter? That's what I thought.

So there you have it. Reproduction is painful, dangerous, and creates misery for everyone, but most importantly, it is unnecessary and 100% COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE. I mean, abstinence, condoms, birth control, whatever your method may be, it is completely preventable.

Additionally, while I am not advocating hastening of the deaths of already living beings, I have to share one of the experiences that brought me to this conclusion and sums up why I believe as I do. A few years back, a friend of mine that is significantly older than me and that I have always respected suggested that I read the Watchmen comics. He lent be the big volume an I read away. Near the climax, the Soviet Union is preparing to launch all of its nukes at the USA, who would in turn fire back. One of the protagonists (I can't remember her name) asks Dr. Manhattan to intervene, He says that, perhaps there is a chance he could stop *some* of the Soviet nukes, but is the instant annihilation of mankind that bad? No more striving, pain, war, suffering-it would just all end (it turned out that the nuclear war actually was avoided...). To me, reproduction is just forcing life (and therefore suffering) upon another person, not to mention the complications that it creates for the already living.

Please, everyone, consider my views on this matter.
I love the doctrine.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Knarf

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 10:15 #48710

Happiness is no more than choosing to look past the bad.

And your perception determines your reality. So if the bad stuff is ll you wish to focus on then the bad stuff is all you will notice. I am not trying to be hard on you or your beliefs. It is just that mine are in complete contradiction with my own beliefs.

I feel that it is the individual that brings the bad to life and that life is a wonderful miracle. And if you have ever experienced the moment of birth, from a personal perspective, I fail to see how you could hold a belief like that.

I'm sorry but I am still in a state of shock. I will have to meditate on this and reply again later. I hope that others will reply as well.

May the Force be with you, in all your endeavors.

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 10:18 #48712

  • Jestor
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Why did you become a Jedi then?

If life was all doom and gloom... Bad experiences and no hope....

Yea, that would suck..

But, since happiness, compassion, love and a plethora of other positive emotions exist I disagree...

But, you are entitled to your opinion....
Rite: PureLand
Master: Master Jasper_Ward
Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Viskhard, DanWerts, Elizabeth, Edan

"If you think it is important to know about yourself only because I or someone else has told you it is important, then I am afraid all communication between us comes to an end. But if we agree that it is vital that we understand ourselves completely, then you and I have quite a different relationship, then we can explore together with a happy, careful and intelligent enquiry.

I do not demand your faith; I am not setting myself up as an authority. I have nothing to teach you - no new philosophy, no new system, no new path to reality; there is no path to reality any more than to truth. All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."~Krishnamurti~

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 10:22 #48713

  • Adder
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Not everyone has experienced life as you describe it Star Forge, and you havent said anything to convince me for your position yet. While cessation of reproduction might be a perfectly valid belief individually, I do not think you could expect others to do the same solely based on your own life experiences.

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 10:45 #48716

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You assume souls exist, have always been and will always be.
Also, you assume that physical life (as opposed to soul life?) is more painful.

I can't claim to know what it is you've been through, but I assure you, a lot of people love life so much they fear death, and most importantly, having children is just as enjoyable as condom-free sex.

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 10:45 #48717

We all experience it, to varying degrees and through various lenses. If you enjoy life, fine, so do I. I am merely stating that life contains pain, fear, etc., and it is against both my morals and my libertarian views to force life on the unborn. Just because something has been the norm does not mean it is right. Just because the majority of European Jews were herded into camps does not mean that such a life was considered a normal Jewish life. Likewise, just because we all suffer does not mean that it is not suffering. Like I said, unless you are an atheist/materialist, you understand that biological events have nothing to do with souls.
I love the doctrine.

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 10:58 #48718

You know, in a way, I am sorry I even shared this. It's just, I cannot understand how people think. Human reproduction, to me, is physically disgusting, sociologically damaging, morally repugnant, and totally avoidable. People explaining how great it is to me are just as outlandish as would be someone explaining how fulfulling it is to eat feces.
I love the doctrine.

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 11:01 #48719

Can not have good without the bad because without one neither would exist. My opinion is that life is a choice it shouldn't be forced on someone or taken away from them.

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 11:02 #48720

But everyone has their own opinion and all should be listened too and I thank you for sharing yours it has given my something to think about
Last Edit: 27 Jan 2012 11:04 by Jacen solo.

Re: An Unpopular Conviction 27 Jan 2012 11:04 #48722

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Star Forge, your position seems based on that the life is forced, but what if its not might be assuming that the soul doesn't itself choose to incarnate into a particular body. If it is the choice of the soul, then would that alter your determination about reproductive morality?
Last Edit: 27 Jan 2012 11:06 by Adder.
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Chapter 34: Concerning the Sea Battle Aboard the Falcon Hani the Duelist bade Luke stand with him on the Falcon’s bow, for he foresaw that Norwegian soldiers would follow them after their departure from the Daudastjarna. “I can’t believe that Víga-Óbívan is dead,” said Lúkr. “There was no way that you could have avenged him there, Lúkr,” said Princess Leia. “Be silent, both of you,” said Hani, “Many other good men have died, but the living man who sits and mourns the deaths of others doesn’t see the arrow that is shot at him.” And just when he had spoken these words, an arrow came flying at his ship and fixed itself upon the box right below his feet. “Stand now with Tsiubakka and me, for soldiers will follow such a message!” Then they saw that Norwegian soldiers had followed them on a small warship and had a grappling hook with them, which they took up and cast between the ships and hooked upon Hani’s ship, dragging it thereupon toward their own. 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Then Tsiubakka came to the fray, and the three of them fought for the rest of the day. Lúkr took a rest during the fighting. Hani saw this and commented: “You have treated others better than you have treated yourself today, for you have ended their thirst.” Then Lúkr took a single serving out of a full cask of mead, and drank it, and went back to fighting after that. And it so happened that more soldiers leapt upon their ship from another small warship, and Lúkr went to defend one side of the Falcon and Hani to the other. Against Lúkr there came a large man in white chainmail, who swung a sword at him which stuck in his shield. Lúkr twisted his shield hard, breaking that sword off at the hilt. Then he struck back, and he struck so swiftly that it seemed to his enemy that three swords were in the air where there was only Lúkr’s one, and he did not know from what direction to defend himself. Lúkr cut both feet out from under him. Tsiubakka killed many more men with a spear. After that they took a great deal of plunder from the Norwegian ship, and from there they held their course east toward the Shetland Islands, fighting constantly along the way and always taking the victory. Chapter 35: Concerning the Feast on Whalsay Hani the Duelist and the others came to land at Whalsay in the Shetland Islands, and they anchored the ship at a harbor there. A short way into the interior of the island lived a jarl who was named Villardr. When he learned that Vikings had come to his land, he sent his men to meet with them, with the purpose of learning whether these Vikings were there in peace or there with the intent of raiding. But when these men came to Hani with their errand from the earl, Hani assured them that they were not there to raid them, for they had no need to raid at this time or to do battle there, and the land was not wealthy anyway. He said also that he had come with Artú Dítússon, an Irishman, and that this good man knew how one might destroy the Norwegian warship which was called the Daudastjarna. The messengers returned to the jarl and told him what had come of their errand. And when the jarl was aware that these Vikings were enemies of King Falfadinn and wished to do some harm to his kingdom, he rejoiced, for he hated Falfadinn and his soldiers, who often raided in Shetland. Then he rode without bodyguards over to where Hani and the others were. When they met, their conversations went well. The jarl invited them to a feast with him and his army. And when they came into the hall of the jarl, they were greeted well, and they were led into the dining room, where beer was brought in and given them to drink. They sat there till the evening. But before the tables were taken up, the jarl said that they should cast lots to determine who should sit together, each man paired with a woman, as far as there were enough, but some would be left to drink alone if there were too many. So the men cast their lots upon a kerchief, and the jarl took them up. The jarl had a daughter. The lots were cast in such a way that it fell to Lúkr to sit with her during the evening. She was going about the hall and enjoying herself. Lúkr then got up and went to the spot where she had been sitting during the day. And when the others all went to their allotted seats, she went to hers next to him. And she said: What do you want, boy, in my seat? I trust that you have seldom fed the wolf warm flesh, and I’d rather sit alone in that case: You have never seen the autumn raven croaking above a slaughtered warrior, you have never been to a place where sharp swords cross. Lúkr put his arm around her and sat her down next to him. And then he said: I have walked with a bloody blade, one that the corpse-hungry raven eagerly followed, and a resounding spear: there was a hard ambush by Víkings, angrily we conducted battle; fire has burnt the abodes of my foes, I have left bloody corpses strewn over city-gates. Then the two of them drank together happily all evening. It was a great feast, and it lasted the whole of the next day also. But then Princess Leia said to Jarl Villardr, “You must lay aside this feasting, my lord, and speak with Artú, this Irishman, who knows how we might destroy the Daudastjarna. I have a suspicion, that that ship will have followed us here.” * Veidr stood on a doorway upon the deck when Tarkinn, Jarl of Stórmof, came to him. “Are you sure, Veidr,” he said, “That you have correctly cast the spell of following upon their ship? Otherwise this voyage will be rather risky.” “Certainly I have cast the spell correctly,” said Veidr, “And already we have learnt that our enemies are hiding on the other side of Mainland in Shetland, on a small island which is called Whalsay. We are now preparing our journey, after we gather a large army here in Falfadinn’s lands in Ireland.” “This has been done in a way pleasing to me,” said Tarkinn. “This is certainly a good week,” said Veidr, “Víga-Óbívan Kvæggansson is dead, and soon all who draw sword against King Falfadinn will die.” Chapter 36: Concerning the Norwegian Fleet On the sixth week of summer the Norwegian fleet neared Whalsay. Hani the Duelist had departed, along with Tsiubakka, for he wished to pay Jabbi, King of the Danes, the ransom that was placed on his head. Lúkr Anakinsson and Jarl Villardr were there with all their warriors; Jarl Villardr had named Lúkr a chieftain, and intended to marry his daughter to him. It was good weather with bright sunshine. Both leaders now went onto a small island with their warriors and saw where very many ships sailed out on the sea all together, and now they saw a particularly large and splendidly adorned ship. Then Jarl Villardr said: “This is a great ship and exquisitely handsome. This must be the Daudastjarna.” Lúkr answered him and said that this was not the Daudastjarna. And it was as he said: This was the ship of Danettr from Pittir. A little later they saw where another ship sailed, this one much bigger than the first. Then Jarl Villardr said: “Veidr and Tarkinn are afraid now. They do not dare to sail with the dragon-heads on their ship.” Then Lúkr said: “This is not the Daudastjarna. I know this ship, and its sail, for the sail is striped. This is Ásvaldr Tesjiksson. We should let them sail on. It will be better for us if this well-prepared ship is a gap and a loss in Veidr’s fleet, than if it is near us.” Then they saw where three ships sailed, and one was a great ship. Then Jarl Villardr bade his men go to their ships, saying that there went the Daudastjarna. Lúkr said: “They have many good and well-decorated ships besides the Daudastjarna. Wait a little longer.” Then many said: “Lúkr doesn’t want to fight and avenge his father Anakinn. This is a great shame, such that will be spoken of in every land, if we lie here with such a force of arms and let Veidr sail past us on the ocean right under our noses.” But only a little after they had said this, they saw that there were four ships sailing, and one of them was a huge dragon-ship spectacularly decorated in gold. Then Lúkr, son of Anakinn, stood and said: “I will stand high upon the prow of the Daudastjarna tonight. I will steer that ship.” Then many said that this was a great ship and a beautiful one, and a magnificent deed to have had such a great ship built. The warriors then went to their ships and raised the sails. And as Lúkr and Villardr talked about what was happening, they saw that there were four ships sailing toward them and the fourth and last was the Daudastjarna. But those large ships, which had sailed before it and which they thought to be the Daudastjarna, were in fact two ships: the first was called Tæfætr the Long, and the second Tæfætr the Short. But when they saw the Daudastjarna, all recognized it, and none denied that there would Veidr be sailing, and they went to their ships and prepared them for battle. There was an arrangement among the two leaders that the first who stepped foot upon the Daudastjarna would own all the loot that was upon it, and each of them also would get all the ships which he could clear of men. Jarl VIllardr had a huge warship which he had been accustomed to bring with him on Viking raids, and he gave Lúkr this ship. This ship was called Eks-Wing, and Artú Dítússon went aboard this ship with Lúkr. And when Lúkr went aboard this ship, he heard the voice of Víga-Óbívan, which said: “Lúkr, avenge me and your father. The good luck of your family will be with you, always.” * Veidr had the horn blown to order his ships together. The Daudastjarna was in the middle of the fleet, and on either side of it Tæfætr the Long and Tæfætr the Short. And when they began to tie the ships together, they tied the Daudastjarna to Tæfætr the Long. But when Veidr saw this he called out loudly, and ordered them to let the bigger ship go first, and not let the great ship be the last in the whole fleet. Then Tarkinn, Jarl of Stórmof, said: “If the Daudastjarna will sail as far ahead of the other ships as it is longer than they are, then it will be difficult to defend the front of it.” Veidr said: “I did not know that my leading officer was both gray-haired and a coward.” Tarkinn said: “Then you defend the back, and I will defend the front.” Veidr took up a bow, strung an arrow upon it and aimed it at Tarkinn. Tarkinn said: “Shoot the other way, Veidr, for there is more need there. What I win is won also for you.” Veidr stood upon the raised aft deck of the Daudastjarna. He towered above all others. He had a black shield and a raven-black helmet, and was easily distinguishable from other men. He had a short black tunic on over his chain mail. And when Veidr saw that the host of his enemies was assembling and flags were being raised for their leaders, he asked: “Who is the leader of that force closest to us, with the golden flags?” He was told that this was Villardr, Jarl of Shetland. Veidr answered: “We do not fear those cowards. Shetlanders have no courage in them. But what leader follows those flags which are out there on the right side, with the red flags?” “That is,” they said, “Lúkr Anakinsson, an Icelander.” Then Veidr answered: “He will be thinking to give us a suitable battle, and we have hope of a harder fight from those troops. He is an Icelander like I am, and I see that a certain family luck is strong with this one.” Chapter 42: Concerning the Duel of Lúkr and Veidr, and the Lament of Veidr Note: There is a sizable lacuna between chapters 36 and 42 in our manuscript of the Tattúínárdǿla saga, but the events of these chapters can be guessed at from the contents of the fragmentary Veiðrsdrápa (“Song of Praise for Veidr”), traditionally attributed to King Falfaðinn himself (although more likely by one of his many court skálds; Þorbjǫrn stjǫrnuklofi has been suspected by many scholars). This poem is badly preserved, due to its only manuscript having been torn apart and repurposed as binding for a volume of bishops’ sagas. But from the surviving stanzas of this poem, we learn that the Death Star has been destroyed - Auga þat’s Falfaðinn Þjaza þiggr – skóp – Amlóða kvern’s liggr æ. “The eye of Þjazi (= star, i.e. Death Star/Dauðastjarna) which Falfaðinn made, is received by the mill of Amloði (= sea), lies there evermore.” We read also of an episode in which Veidr chases the rebels to a hideout in the icy northern district of Hoth, apparently employing a team of notably tall-legged horses in so doing (or is this an unsatisfactorily explained kenning for something else?) - Háleggjuðu þengils leggjum leiðum manar hófa skeiða til hrímkalda sunnan heims Hoðs hǫggum þá’s ljóssborgar skrǫgg fjásk. “Let us set the hooves of the king’s high-legged ships of the mane (= horses) on the paths northward to the frost-cald land of Hoth, let us cut down those who hate the light-city’s (= Koruskantborg’s) fox (= leader, i.e. Falfaðinn).” And the poem offers us tantalizing clues about Lúkr’s whereabouts afterwards: Hvé Lúkr lauk-at vitu-t seggir ljúga’s segja Veiðr hann kúgi; trúa flest hann fǿri austan fann Óðinssvikara Jóða. “How Lúkr’s life was spared is unknown; they lie who say that he was frightened of Veidr, and most say that he went west, where he found Jódi, the betrayer of Odin (i.e. the Christian).” However, the prose narrative itself does not resume till the duel of Veidr and Lúkr in chapter 42, which is also written in a noticeably younger hand than chapters 17-36. * Now it must be told, that Lúkr sees a mann standing upon the road before him, and he sees that this man must be Veidr. Lúkr draws his sword and strikes at Veidr, but Veidr raises his shield, and Lúkr’s strike lodges in Veidr’s shield. Then Veidr cut to Lúkr, but Lúkr acted wisely; he ducked under the blow, though he was wounded a little by it. Veidr spoke, he began to ask in few words, who Lúkr’s father was, “or of what kin you are, child; if you tell me the name of one of them, I will know the others in your line; all the people on Iceland are well known to me.” Lúkr Anakinsson spoke: “I was told by Víga-Óbívan, an old man and wise, who once lived, that my father was named Anakinn; I am named Lúkr. My father went east long ago.” Veiðr said: “Víga-Óbívan will not have told you the truth about what happened to your father.” “He told me enough,” said Lúkr, “He told me, that my father was always at the forefront of any army, that he was a man who cherished war, that he was well-known to other brave men. And he told me that you killed him.” “That is not true,” said Veidr, “For I am your father.” He then took from his arm twisted arm-rings, made of gold from the royal treasury, which his king, the lord of Norway, had given him: “These I give to you in friendship.” Lúkr Anakinsson said: “With a spear shall one receive gifts, spearpoint against spearpoint.” “Now a great disgrace occurs,” said Veidr, “For now my own son shall cut me with his sword, break me beneath his blade, or else I shall become his killer.” “You are not to be believed, you crafty Norwegian,” said Lúkr, “Even if you are my father, you will still want to kill Hani, who is my sworn brother, and it would be shameful if I sat by.” And he cut for Veidr with his sword gripped in both hands, dealt a damaging blow to Veidr’s white shield. “This is manfully done,” said Veidr. Veidr cut for Lúkr’s hand, so that it was cut off, and Lightsaber the Green fell down and with it Lúkr. Anakinn spoke – he was called Veidr, Lúkr’s father: Old Odin, do not grant me your favor! Better do I think it to eat goat’s flesh than to drink the mead of Valhalla, to be deprived of joy and exchange it for honor. I have cut off the hand of my own son; may Odin repair his hand, and my family, or else when my brave son wins his seat in Valhalla, may he not find me there. Chapter 43: Concerning Lúkr in Jabbi’s Palace Our story turns now to this, when Princess Leia, together with Thrípíó Dítússon, Tsiubakka the Frisian, and the famous captain Lando Kalrisson of Cloud-City, went to Denmark on that ship of Dueling-Hani which is called the Falcon. Lúkr Anakinsson was displeased with this, for he thought it poorly planned, and he himself was in ill health the whole summer, for he had lost his hand when he fought a duel against his father, Veiði-Anakinn. But many weeks later Lúkr Anakinsson, the Sky-walker, sailed to Denmark, together with Artú Dítússon, on that good ship which is called the Ekkill’s Wing, after the great old sea-king of that name. And on this journey Artú cast a spell, which he had learned among the Jedi Fjord Men of old, and he made a new hand for Lúkr, and this hand was made of silver. Jabbi the Stout was King of Denmark in those days. He was an excellent chieftain in every respect, but a fat man and a great drinker, and he was not accustomed to traveling on this account. It seemed to him best to remain at his court, while he sent men to travel widely around and accomplish his errands. Lúkr came to the king’s residence with Artú. He led his horse into the stable next to the king’s best horses, and asked no one about it; he then went into the hall, and a few of Jabbi’s bodyguards were there. Some bodyguards asked him why he had come. “I came to meet with your king, because I would like to purchase the peaceful release of my sworn brother, Dueling Hani, son of Sóló,” said Lúkr. “Now, take me to him.” The bodyguards refused to do this, but Lúkr cast the magic of the Jedi Fjord Men upon them. “Now you will take me to your king,” he said. They did so. “You serve your king well,” said Lúkr, and this pleased the bodyguards. “He will reward you extraordinarily well.” Now when Lúkr came before the seat of King Jabbi, the king was asleep, and Lúkr saw in a certain corner where Leia sat. She was bound to the throne of Jabbi, and much harried because Jabbi and his men were accustomed to force her to wait on them day and night. Men say that Jabbi punished her in this fashion because she released Hani from his magical bonds, and King Jabbi could not bear to have his power challenged by a woman. In those times it was not customary among the Danes to give heed to a woman’s words. Now the bodyguards woke Jabbi, and led Thrípíó the son of Dítú thereto, for he had entered into the service of Jabbi, and he spoke many languages. But because Lúkr could not speak Danish, he could understand only a little of what King Jabbi said when Jabbi saw what man had come to visit him. “I told you,” said Jabbi, “That this man should never be allowed to come into my presence, or into the very sight of me or my sons. You meager-brained fools! He has enchanted you with Jedi magic. And yet he has willingly entered into my power, and so I shall not act basely towards him without hearing him speak his errand first.” And now Jabbi turned to Lúkr and said, “Bo shuda.” That is how the Danes say “Welcome.” Thrípíó now began to translate Jabbi’s words into Norse. “You will give me Dueling Hani, and Tsiubakka the Frisian,” said Lúkr. “Your magic does not work on me,” said Jabbi. “All the same,” said Lúkr, “I will take them away, and our friends. You have a choice, king, that will have seemed unlikely to you before this moment, for now I have power over your life. I will not be a worse drengr to you than you are to me. And now I offer you two choices: To be killed, or to let me take my friends and receive payment for them instead. I will take them either way.” Jabbi laughed, and had Lúkr cast into a pit, and in this pit lived a lion. “I do not wish to make this choice,” said Jabbi, and laughed again. Lúkr saw the lion, which was lying down with a dead man under it, whose blood it was sucking up. Then Lúkr said to the lion: “Stand up and fight me. That will be more manly than to lie there on that meat.” The lion stood up and looked at Lúkr, but then sat back down. Lúkr said: “If you think that I am better armed than you, then I shall do something about that.” He cast off his helmet and set down his shield as well. “Now stand up if you dare.” The lion sat up and shook its head, but then lay back down. “I understand now,” said Lúkr, “That you want us to be equally unarmed.” Now he cast his sword aside and said: “It will be as you wish! Now stand up, if you have a heart that is not better suited to the most cowardly of creatures.” The lion stood up and bristled and looked very grim. It leapt then at Lúkr and lifted up its paw, which it intended to strike Lúkr with. But at the moment that it prepared to strike, Lúkr leapt at the lion in turn. They wrestled for a long time. The combat was great, and the end of it was that Lúkr got the lion on its back and broke its spine. Then King Jabbi had Lúkr taken out of the pit and had Hani and Tsiubakka brought to him, together with all those who belonged to their following. It was then that Lúkr saw Dueling-Hani. “We meet again, my sworn brother,” said Hani. “I would not wish to be elsewhere,” said Lúkr, “Than a place where we might fight together against our enemies.” “Or die together,” said Hani, “But how have things been with you otherwise, since we last saw each other?” “The same as before,” said Lúkr. “So much the worse,” replied Hani, “But where is Leia?” He was still blind because of Veiðr’s magic. “I am here,” she said. But now Thrípíó came to them and said: “The great Jabbi has decided that you are to be killed immediately.” “I call that good news,” said Hani, “It would bore me to wait a long time.” “For the king has decided,” continued Thrípíó, “That you shall be brought to the Dune Lake, and there you shall be cast into the mouth of the Lyng-back, where you will dwell for a thousand years in unspeakable suffering.” “That I cannot call good news,” said Hani, and Tsiubakka indicated his agreement. “You will not kill me,” said Lúkr, “When the next dawn comes, I will be alive, and you, King Jabbi, will not be.” But Jabbi laughed at him. More than a third of Jylland in Denmark is a great desert, and it was to this desert that King Jabbi had his captives taken. Chapter 44: Concerning the Lyngbak or Sarlaccus, and the Death of King Jabbi Jabbi, King of the Danes, rode to the Dún Lake with his following, and Princess Leia was with him because he had taken her as his servant, and she was in chains. Thrípíó and Artú, the sons of Dítú, were with him as well, for they had become a part of his retinue. Artú bore the king’s drinking horn. But King Jabbi had Lúkr Anakinsson, Hani Sólósson, and Tsiúbakka the Frisian led to the lake in the chains of prisoners. Jabbi did not know that Landó Kalrisson, who had bound them, had tied the bonds of Hani and Tsiubakka loosely – for he had become a retainer of King Jabbi, but he felt compelled to repay Hani because he had rescued him from the soldiers and wrath of Veidr in Cloud City. But to Lúkr he had not given heed, for he had heard it said that Lúkr was the son of Veidr. Now in old days there lived in the desert of Denmark the Lyngbak, a great and large dragon, which ate all that which fell into its mouth, but only its mouth was seen, and it was in the Dún Lake. And such a magic lay upon this dragon, that everything that fell into its mouth living, would live within it for a thousand years in pain and darkness. Some men have said, that the Romans called this monster the Sarlaccus. Now Thrípíó knelt before the king, and spoke aloud in the hearing of all: “If you wish to beg for mercy, the king will hear your pleas.” But Hani answered, he was Sóló’s son: “Thrípío, tell that worm-bitten pile of mud that he will get no such pleasure out of us!” Tsiubakka expressed agreement with this. But Lúkr spoke, he was the son of Anakinn whom men call Veidr: “King Jabbi, I offer you this for the last time: Free us, or you will die.” But Jabbi, King of the Danes, laughed, and ordered Lúkr to be pushed out into the lake over the mouth of the Sarlaccus. But the king did not know that Artú Dítússon had kept the good sword of Lúkr, which was called Lightsaber the Green, and he did not see when Artú threw this good sword to Lúkr. But Lúkr caught that sword, and with the strength of the men of the Jedi Fjords he broke his bonds asunder, and killed fifteen men before Jabbi’s men could even draw their weapons. A battle broke out then; many in the following of Jabbi were killed. Then Lúkr ran forward and cut with both hands, for he had also seized a broad-bladed spear in his left hand, and he ran to the place where he saw the king’s banner. There fell Sy Snootles the singer, a retainer of Jabbi’s, and many another good man. But when Lúkr reached the wall of shields surrounding the king, his sword stuck in the man who bore the king’s banner. Then Lúkr said: “Now I struck three feet too short.” The king himself wanted to deal Lúkr his death blow. But Princess Leia stood behind Jabbi, and she took up her chains and swept them up under the king’s neck and strangled him to death. It is for this reason that she began to be called Leia the King-killer. On this day Dueling-Hani killed Bóbafett, son of Jangofett, and that was a great deed, but men say that Lúkr Anakinsson killed thirty men. And the bodies of all whom they had killed, including the body of the king, they fed to the Sarlaccus, and they took as booty the horses and weapons of King Jabbi and rode west toward the sea. Chapter 45: Concerning the Death of Jódi Gormóarson Now Lúkr went with Artú Dítússon to meet with Jódi Gormóarson in the Faroe Islands. But there Lúkr found Jódi in his bed, and Jódi seemed unlikely to live. “Are you sick, my foster-father?” asked Lúkr. “Yes, yes,” said Jódi, “Sick I am, old and weak am I become. But when ninety winters you have lived, look so good you will not. Die soon shall I.” “But I need help from you still,” said Lúkr, “I have come back because I want to continue to train in the magic of the Jedi Fjord Men.” “Require further training you do not,” said Jódi, “Know all that do you, which you require.” “Then I have become a man of the Jedi Fjords.” “No! Not yet. Avenge your father you must, a man whom we once counted as a member of our family also.” “But Veidr is my father,” said Lúkr, “Is that not true?” “True it is,” said Jódi, “Your father he is. Told you, did he?” “Yes,” said Lúkr. “This was not your hope,” said Jódi, “And it is an unlucky thing to have happened.” “Unlucky?” said Lúkr, “Unlucky that I know the truth, about my own father?” “No,” said Jódi, “Unlucky that now, doubts have you, about killing a man, who killed must be. Lúkr! Your father you must kill. Doubt do not, that an honorable name you shall win with the men of the Jedi Fjords forever. But the last Jedi Fjord Man you will be, when I am dead… though there was another child of Anakinn the Sky-walker.” With this Jódi died. Jódi was placed in the mound which was prepared for him. He was laid in a ship in that mound, and much money and property was placed in the mound with him. Then the mound was sealed up. Chapter 46: Concerning the Zombie of Víga-Óbívan It has been told that when Víga-Óbívan dueled against Veidr, he died, but he sang that song which allowed him to live longer as an invisible zombie. But on that day when Jarl Jódi Gormóarson died, he showed himself to Lúkr. “Víga-Óbívan,” said Lúkr, “Why did you never tell me that Veidr was my father? You told me that Veidr betrayed and killed my father.” “What I told you,” said Víga-Óbívan, “Was true – from my point of view. After your father pledged himself to the service of King Falfadinn, he held his word to him, but to the family of the Jedi Fjords, which had fostered him, he was faithless. And so I counted the good man, who was your father, dead, and Veidr I counted as his killer. And I think that it is destined for you to avenge your father – even if you avenge the man on himself.” “But he is still my father,” said Lúkr, “His blood is my own. I cannot believe that he is completely bad. To believe him to be beyond redemption, is to believe that I am, as well. For to whom is a good drengr more loyal than to his father?” “Say the same thing about me,” said Víga-Óbívan, “For know that I myself swore an oath to avenge my father. And your father swore that same oath. I now crave satisfaction for your father’s oath from you. For indeed, to whom is agood drengr more loyal than to his father? And to his words? And to the words of his father? But your father lied, and he serves now the man who killed the man whom he swore to avenge.” “If I kill him,” said Lúkr, “I kill the last kinsman left to me, and I become an outlaw in all lands. The praise of the Jedi Fjord family will mean little to me, since you are all dead. And I must believe that my father is in his right mind, and that he did what he did for a reason, though I may not know it. And it is said of old that, “Two ravens make for home in the evening, turn from the leavings of battle on the plain; fearless unreconciled warriors would seem wasted to them if left uneaten.” “And yet,” continued Lúkr, “You and Jóði would rather that I feed my father to the ravens, than that I feed my father’s enemies thereto.” “And yet you are either a traitor to your family,” said Víga-Óbívan, “Or to your words. Either way your father will certainly try to kill your sister, if you do not attack him.” “Leia,” said Lúkr, “Is Leia my sister?” “Certainly she is your sister,” said Víga-Óbívan, “And Dueling Hani, a strong man and a bold one, is your brother-in-law. Are you then without kin? Or do you think that you can belie your oath to him, when you told him that you sworn brothers would together destroy the second Daudastjarna, your father’s own ship, and take everything upon it as booty, or else perish in the attempt?” “Certainly I do not,” said Lúkr. “Then there is nothing else you can do,” said Víga-Óbívan, “It must go as it has been fated.” Chapter 47: Concerning the Oaths of Lúkr Anakinsson and his Following A little later Lúkr Anakinsson sailed to the Hebrides with Artú Dítússon. There he met Hani Sólósson and Landó Kalrisson, and to that meeting came also Leia King-killer, as well as Landó’s brother, Akbarr, whom men called the Squid, for he was a good sailor and pirate. “It is to be expected,” said Landó, “That you all have heard tell: King Falfadinn is making a new Daudastjarna, bigger than its predecessor. The ship is still not complete, and sits in harbor in the Shetlands, where there is an island called Fetlar. The Norwegians raid there, and take all the food they get as provisions for their voyages. The Shetlanders who live there – men call them the Bear-folk, because in size and strength they resemble bears more than men – have made a wall across the island, and they in turn raid the Norwegians on the east side of the wall. Their chieftain is named Ívok of Endor; he is a man of noble lineage. But they need a larger force of arms.” “And even were it not true, that these men who hate our enemies need help,” said Hani, “Still this would be true – that King Falfadinn himself is there, and with him is Veidr, the killer of Víga-Óbívan.” Lúkr rose now and spoke: “Veidr is my father and has pledged himself to the king of Norway, but King Falfadinn is my enemy. Thus I swear this oath, that I shall have King Falfadinn driven out of his kingdom, before the third night of winter is passed, or else I shall have him killed and so have seized the kingdom for myself. And now, Hani, it is your turn,” said Lúkr, “And take care that you do not speak any less well than have I.” Hani answered: “So it shall be, that I shall say something. I swear this oath, that I shall raid in the Shetlands before the third night of winter has passed, with whatever force I can gather, and I will have King Falfadinn chased out of the land or else killed. Otherwise my own corpse will rest in the Shetlands.” Then Lúkr spoke: “This goes well, and this oath is well-sworn if you can fulfill it, and it is not the least manly thing you have done. We must accomplish well and manfully what we have sworn. Now it is your turn, Landó Kalrisson, to make an oath, and clearly it must be a manly one.” Landó answered: “I have thought of an oath for myself. I swear this oath, that I will follow my brother Akbarr the Squid and never flee until our very ship sinks. But if we fight upon the land, then I swear this oath, that I shall never flee so long as my brother is in the fray with me and I can see his standard flying before me.” Akbarr the Squid agreed to this oath. “You have spoken well,” said Lúkr, “And you will certainly fulfill your oath, as you are a good drengr. Now, Tsiubakka, it is your turn, and we know that you will have something very manful to say.” “I swear this oath,” said Tsíubakka, and Thrípíó translated his words into Norse, “That I shall follow Hani, my comrade, in this journey, so long as I am a man and a drengr, and I shall not stop until fewer men stand than have fallen in the fray, and even then I shall continue to fight so long as Hani wills it.” “It went as we expected,” said Lúkr, “You spoke extremely manfully.” And when they were drinking the next day, Lúkr was exceedingly cheerful and enjoying himself very much. It so happened, that Lúkr told Landó that he would provide twenty ship whenever Landó was ready for this journey. Landó answered: “This contribution is good… for a rich farmer. But is not a kingly contribution, and such a chieftain I reckon you now, and the son-in-law of Jarl Villardr of Shetland.” Then Lúkr got a somewhat wolfish expression on his face, and he asked Landó: “How much do you think you would need, if you had such a large force as you wanted?” “That is easily answered,” said Landó, “Sixty ships, all of them large and well-manned.” Now Lúkr answered: “All of these ships shall be prepared, Landó, when you are ready for the journey. I shall have done what you ask of me.” Chapter 48: Concerning the Preaching of Thrípíó Dítússon The saga turns now to Veidr, who arrived at the new Daudastjarna. The sailor who was in charge of the builders greeted him well, and asked why he had come. “I have come,” said Veidr, “To deliver to your ears the message of King Falfadinn – who is angry, because the ship has not been completed, and he is coming here as soon as he can, to make sure that the work is completed.” “The king is coming here?” “Certainly,” said Veidr, “And he is not so merciful as am I.” Another sailor came forth and said that a ship had come which no man could recognize – “and they want to go to the other side of the island.” “Did they know the password?” asked the first sailor. “Yes, sir,” said the other, “Though it was an old password. Still, they were clad, like us, in white armor and helmets. The man who steers their ship spoke Norse like a Norwegian and not like a Shetlander or Icelander.” “Let them sail on,” said Veidr, “And I myself will seek them on the island.” *** “It has gone as I said,” said Hani, “We are free of them and can continue on to the island. There we can assemble the men of Ívok, and attack the Norwegian army from the land while Landó and the others attack by sea.” “Still I fear,” said Lúkr Anakinsson, “That my father Veidr will know that I am with you, and will want to attack us first. He is a hard man and a good viking, unmerciful, yes, even to his own kinsmen.” “Unmerciful? I have not heard ever before,” said Hani, “That Veidr offered anyone what he offered you. But how could he find us? You believe in too much, but so you were taught by Víga-Óbívan. Personally I just fear that Landó will destroy my ship, the Falcon.” When they came to land, on that side of the island which Ívok of Endor and his men claimed, they saw nothing. They walked on a while, but then they were attacked by concealed men who shot arrows at them, and asked: “Who are these men who have come to our war-torn land? Speak up swiftly, or we shall kill you all, you servants of King Falfadinn.” Lúkr asked, “Was a messenger ever sent here, to tell them of our purpose in coming?” “Certainly men were sent,” said Hani, “But I don’t think any got here. And we are clad as Norwegian soldiers.” But Thrípíó held forth his book called the Bible, and spoke in these words: “We do not serve King Falfadinn, whom we reckon as a false king. We serve rather the true king, who is called Jesus Christ, and lives in Rome.” And then Thrípíó told of many miracles performed by Jesus Christ and his saints, and the Shetlanders, great men and very strong, wondered greatly at this Irish man and these words of his, and about this strong king who would strengthen them if they would only let go of their heathen gods and give all of their prayers to him. These men said that they would certainly take them to their chieftain, Ívok. Two men bore Thrípíó upon their shoulders, while the other bound Hani and Lúkr and the others, and led them forward. “Thrípío, son of Dítú,” spoke Dueling-Hani, “I, Hani son of Sólo, swear this oath, that when my arms are free, I will challenge you to a duel, for you have told a lie about me. Otherwise you will be hated by all men. I would rather believe in Odin than in the White-Christ, though I think that the words of both have cheated men of their lives. A king and a god! – one needs the other. And you, Lúkr, you would like to believe in all gods, and to set yourself up as a king in Falfadinn’s stead.” “Silence, Hani,” said Lúkr, “It is a lie which Thrípíó has spoken, but it has spared our lives.” “So it begins,” said Hani, “Power, and faith, and lies, they are all branches in the same tree. But I choose none of them. I choose only this: To chop that tree down with my axe whenever I see it, even the smallest sprout of it. In a forest of such trees all light dwindles, and the ashes and elms wither.” Chapter 49: Concerning the Last Meeting of Lúkr with His Father It is now time to tell, that Thrípíó converted Ívok and his people to the Christian faith. And they would not endure that they should lose this precious messenger of the faith, and so Ívok forbade him to duel Hani on his island. “The thing to do now,” said Ívok, “Is to render aid to Landó and the others when they attack the Norwegian fleet. Let us go! Let us go as soon as we can.” And all praised his words. But Lúkr stood outside, and his face was grim. While those within shouted and clapped, he left, and alone he walked the path toward the hall which the Norwegians had erected near the Daudastjarna. After Lúkr had walked a long time in the darkness on the path through the heath, he saw a shadow which stood before him, and the shadow was darker even than the night itself. “Take my sword, father,” said Lúkr, “I will not fight you.” He handed his sword to Veiðr, and Veiðr grasped it slowly by the hilt. Veiðr said, “It was my sword, when I was younger. When I was called Anakinn. Lightsaber the Green – certainly it is a good sword and a sharp one. But now I bear Lightsaber the Red, and it is sharper still, and that name Anakinn never did me any good.” “It is still your true name,” said Lúkr. But Veiðr became angry. “It is a name,” he said, “given to me by a slavewoman. The name Veiðr was the gift of a king, and that is worth three times as much.” “Still I have heard,” said Lúkr, “That you killed more men in vengeance for that slavewoman than you have killed since, whether in the service of the Jedi Fjord Men or the king. And I believe that you are still the pride of our family – born as a slave on Iceland, but now become a friend of kings and a world-famous warrior. You do me honor to call me your son, and I will not betray my worthy father. Take me to your king – it is he who is my enemy.” “He is my king,” said Veidr, “If you serve me as a child ought to serve his father, then he is your king also.” “That could never be,” said Lúkr, “Even if I knew that my life depended on it. He is responsible for the death of Víga-Óbívan, and I am obliged to avenge him. He is also responsible for the death of Kvæggan, Víga-Óbívans father, and I have inherited from my father the obligation to avenge him.” “Then your father is dead,” said Veidr, “If you have inherited this from him.” “Certainly my father is dead,” said Lúkr, “If, rather than avenge the man who gave you freedom, you would kill your own son.” “If that is your destiny,” said Veidr, “So be it. Better that the father should take such a life of misery upon himself, than condemn his son to it.” Chapter 50: Concerning the Trap The saga turns now to Landó and his men, who were in their ships, concealed in an inlet where they awaited a sign that Hani had begun his assault on the Daudastjarna from the island. Now they saw the fire which Hani had started; he wished to burn the Daudastjarna in the harbor before the Norwegian fleet could arrive. But there were many soldiers who protected that good ship. “Weigh anchor!” said Landó. “Today we will destroy the Daudastjarna, and kill King Falfadinn.” But as their ships passed the peninsula which had concealed them, they saw Norwegian ships, more than 190. These had been hidden as well, on the other side of this same peninsula. “It’s a trap!” shouted Akbarr, whom men called the Squid. The Norwegian ships encircled them, and berserkers boarded Landó’s ship. It was a hard battle and a long one, but Akbarr the Squid fell. His brother Landó defended himself a long time with his sword, and all wondered at this man who defended himself so well even though so many attacked him. And yet everyone who came near to him in that battle thought that this one man was quite enough to deal with. It is said that at last one of the berserkers beheaded Landó, but it is the opinion of most men that there are few who have ever been Landó’s match for courage and fighting prowess. Chapter 51: Concerning the Fall of Lúkr Anakinsson When Veidr had taken Lúkr to the king on the Daudastjarna, and the three of them had witnessed from there the ambush and the hard naval battle that followed, the king turned to Lúkr and spoke: “It was I who contrived to draw my enemies here in order to destroy all of them in one blow. The North Atlantic now belongs to me alone; the chieftains who stood against me have come to me like sheep for the shearing. And the wool which I have sheared from them is nothing less than their very kingdoms!” “You are overconfident,” said Lúkr, “and you are far too proud in this dishonorable way of killing men.” “You are overconfident,” said the king, “and have too much faith if you believe that honorable men can become king. I would like to be both king and an honorable man, but those are two separate choices, and a man can only be one or the other. The one tree owns the space which it can shove the other out of, and so it is with men as well.” “My father is not a man like you,” said Lúkr, “He is honorable, and would choose a good reputation over power.” But the king laughed. “Then try this, boy – take your sword, which lies here next to my hand, and strike me down, me, the one who engineered the death of your friends, the Men of the Jedi Fjords, and see whether your father defends you or me!” And Lúkr drew his sword, Lightsaber the Green, which lay next to the king, and raised it to strike the king. But Veidr’s sword, Lightsaber the Red, parried his blow. Then Veidr and Lúkr fought, both of them with the greatest ferocity. It has never been said that there was any fault with the attack, or the defense, put up by either of them. Each cut frequently and hard for the other, and it seemed as if a great fire burned wherever their blades met. And then they began to fight so fiercely, that neither defended himself from the other, but rather cut as frequently and swiftly as possible, so that the very ship shook beneath them like a sail battered by wind. Men say that there has never been a more manly exchange of blows, that there has never been a fairer pair of weapons that crossed blades, that there has never been a more extraordinary fight, than that duel. But it ended in this way, that Veidr, whom men once called the Skywalker, slew his own son, Lúkr by name, who had also received the byname of Skywalker. Veidr was exceedingly badly wounded, and exhausted, and as he turned to where King Falfadinn sat, men say that his face was as waxen pale as a corpse’s. Chapter 52: Concerning the Capture of Hani the Duelist The saga tells now that Hani the Duelist and the men with him defended themselves well, until darkness fell, and by then they were all injured. The battle ended. Little was left of the day, and King Falfadinn thought it needless to travel to the land and kill these enemies of his who could not escape, and to kill a man at night is murder. Hani the Duelist and those of his companions who lived, bound their wounds and waited through the night. And it is said that just before dawn, the king and his men went to land. “Kill all of these men as swiftly as possible,” said the king. He had them bound and then beheaded, one after the other. The last man who was led out to be beheaded was handsome and had handsome-looking hair. The king asked how this man had planned to see his life end. But the man answered: “I have lived very well, and I think it good to die with a good name; but shame has accrued to your name, and you will live forever with that shame and disgrace.” “What is this handsome man named?” asked the king. “My name is Hani. Some men call me Hani the Duelist.” “Whose son are you, Hani?” asked the king. “Or of what kin are you?” “Sóló was my father’s name,” he said, “And I am from a Norwegian family.” “How old of a man are you?” asked the king. “If I live through this coming winter, and return home to my wife Leia King-killer,” said Hani, “Then I shall be thirty-nine.” “And you shall live through this coming winter,” said Veidr, “If I have any say in the matter, for I will not see this man killed.” The king agreed to this, saying that it behooved him to spare the life of such a handsome Norwegian man. Chapter 53: Concerning the Fall of Anakinn the Sky-walker Hani the Duelist returned to the Hebrides, and his return was greeted joyfully by his wife Leia King-killer. She gave birth to their first child the day after his arrival, and Hani sprinkled the boy with water and named him Anakinn. “Why do you give him the name of our enemy, who killed our friend Lúkr?” asked Leia. “Because he spared my life, and he was under no obligation to do so,” said Hani, “And it is not Anakinn, but Falfadinn and the Jedi Fjord Men – the seekers after power – who are rightly counted our enemies.” “And you? What are you after? Vengeance for Lúkr?” “No. I am after money,” said Hani. “What good is Veidr’s reward, if I’m not around to use it? And I cannot believe that any man is more miserable than Veidr already. Let our son bring some joy to that name.” * And when their son Anakinn Hanason was full-grown, he went raiding and became a wealthy man, and settled on Dagóba island in the Faroes near the farm where Jódi Gormóarson had once lived, and the mound where Jódi was buried. And one evening Anakinn Hanason was outside on the south side of Jódi’s burial mound, and the moon shone bright. It seemed to Anakinn that the mound was open, and that Jódi was awake within it together with the zombie of Víga-Óbívan. They told him that Veidr was his mother’s father, and how Veidr had killed his own son Lúkr, and they urged Anakinn to avenge this kinsman of his. And so Anakinn Hanason went secretly to Koruskantborg in Norway and got off his ship, and left his men to guard it. Then he went to the king’s estate and came to the hall where the king’s retainers drank. There he found an old man, frail-looking and sorrowful; this man did not drink, but rather sat on his stool and spoke this verse: Old Odin, do not grant me your favor! Better do I think it to eat goat’s flesh than to drink the mead of Valhalla, to be deprived of joy and exchange it for honor. I have cut off the hand of my own son; may Odin repair his hand, and my family, or else when my brave son wins his seat in Valhalla, may he not find me there. Anakinn Hanason asked the man why he was so unhappy. The old man said, “Have you not heard? But you are a Hebridean, or perhaps Faroese, by the way you talk. My name is Anakinn, father of Lúkr – but most call me Veidi-Anakinn or Veidr, the Son-killer.” “Then you are the man whom I’ve come here to kill,” said Anakinn Hanason, “For you slew my uncle Lúkr. I am named Anakinn, son of Hani.” Veidr rose then and spoke: “If you are the son of Hani and Leia, then you are my grandson. I will not ask for you to spare my life, but hear me, please: You are my family, and I want my sword to stay in our family, the good sword which I bore, and which my dear son Lúkr bore after me -” But Anakinn Hanason swung his axe and gave Veidr a deep cut in the shoulder. “Silence, you crafty Norwegian,” he said, “My uncle Lúkr believed your lies, and it cost him his life.” Veidr spat blood; as he died, his white beard turned to red, and he spoke: “I was born without family, son of a slavewoman and a man who would not acknowledge me his son. And so I ought to have remained. Family is a weak tree, rotten and short-lived.” And there Veidr, or Anakinn the Sky-walker, died, and from his hand fell Lightsaber the Green. And we have not heard that there is more to tell of the saga of the people of the Tattúín River Valley.
    • The Imperishable Gem (Last post by Alexandre Orion)
    • "Quand j'étais bouddhiste je rendais fou ma famille et mes amis, mais maintenant que je suis devenu un bouddha, je ne dérange plus personne." ~ anonyme "When I was a Buddhist, I drove ma family and friends crazy, but now that I have become a Buddha, I don't bother anyone any-more." ~ anonymous
    • Favorite Art (Last post by MikeBudo)
    • Greetings Each I did this back in May Had no intention of doing any art as I'm not artistic but this does tell a story of my new begining and dealing with PTSD :)
    • Jedi Badges (?) (Last post by RyuJin)
    • I feel ya on the tat....just check the It does garner considerable attention...
    • ALS (Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis) (Last post by tzb)
    • Here's my Star Wars themed vid: Another interesting point, when you donate to ALSA you can choose for the whole of your donation to go towards research: [image]
    • Volunteer Service (Last post by crystale)
    • Hello, in Brotherhood. Usually I not make new topics. I like to think that I can help,maybe with a small tip. I like to watch and preservate the nature of many things (without) ,or (in less) participation (mine) Maybe sound as contradiction that some times I like participate in some things that can create a trascendental change,this can to create my inner personal conmotion (as expression) I describe myself as a sensitive person This is my point: I want to offer some service,in relationship to help some people that (in middle of maybe a tiring,or some times violent society,some of us can to feel tired or confused... I have this behaviour of preocupation with people around many times. (But now is with brothers here) Is not about rank,degrees,or group/s. Can to be nice for me to listen, in private messages maybe,or in this thread, some personal concerns, trouble, or worry. Some times maybe technical needs ? I do not offer answers to all but I try to activate a mechanism of positive change. Also I need a one other volunteer,perhaps more preparated, or high ranked, to,some times... I express a general idea of general preocupations, as summary for him... sounds like policy? The idea also is about particular concerns (Is a trying.....(humble..... If my idea is not considered "good",or if this work actually is under treatment by other people... I offer my apologies. (I sure of course many people is helping in very organized way) This idea is maybe for other needs,maybe considered in minor urgency, or hard to express. (?) Or mediation in mid of two parts in conflict...? or other ? This is not strictly for new members. Some times we all feel in the need to drink a coffe (or tea)with someone ready to listen ...some times is just thats... "hey bro I was have a hard day today" example,or maybe other more complex In other way of expression I want to say: I am opened to listen. I don't sure how many people is needed for this kindly ocupation Is not my intention get a some functional or politic position Perhaps many people know /having how ...or who ...or where go. perhaps others, not. So.. this is my worry. If is not good idea, I use this topic to say I'm here. ;)
    • The Misuses of "Criticism" (Last post by Targeran Arynal)
    • NB 'The impreciseness of the paraphrase of this as 'I know that I know nothing' stems from the fact that the author is not saying that he does not know anything but means instead that one cannot know anything with absolute certainty but can feel confident about certain things.' Stokes, Michael C. (1997). Apology of Socrates. Warminster: Aris & Phillips. p. 18. ISBN 0-85668-371-X.
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    • We really do need a phone friendly chat app...I get booted from chat frequently...and if I don't get booted I can't see what I'm typing...and the chat won't autoscroll so I have to keep manually scrolling which keeps changing the view.....

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