I think it's more about coming to understand the other ways people might try and get through their life. I believe that all humans have both positive and negative motivations and characteristics, as people trying to do well in the world, we are trying to motivate ourselves and others into a more positive life and through positive means. And to increase happiness, safety, health and love in the universe – I don't believe you can get those results through cruelty, anger, hate and so on.

To me, the 'dark side' is about how we are all tempted to wallow in our … selfish impulses; to use others for our own gain without thought to theirs, to blind ourselves to the potential harmful consequences of our actions, and even to decide to be intentionally cruel to achieve goals. So, for me, the whole dark side as just another part of Jediism doesn't make sense. The dark side are the aspects of all people that we struggle to manage, to clear ourselves from, to understand so we don't allow that darkness to control us.

But in order to be mindful of ourselves, we must also be willing to look at our flaws and weaknesses, to understand them and to let go of the shame and anger we might feel about our 'sins' so that we can actually deal with them.

the dark side is real, and the force is there also but we must resist the temptation of the dark side

I agree with most views here. I believe one has to understand the dualistic aspects that reside within. To label things as good and evil is a misconception on our part. We tend to label the things that we like and agree with as good and those that don't as evil. We have a choice to walk whatever path that we come across and no one has the right to judge you. Our ability to choose is what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. We are all creations of the one force but with different levels of understanding. Choice my brothers and sisters is what keeps us walking the path that resonates within. Until we can embrace our dualistic aspects and bring them into balance we will never be free of it. As a Jedi i choose to walk a certain path and i know that even though the sith walk another we both serve the same force.

I do not believe the dark side has anything to do with evil. Nor the light side with good.

The real difference between the two is are you going to draw strength from your emotions or from wisdom. Yes, one can draw great strength from ones emotions. But strong feelings will not bring peace. Any strong emotion rather it be love or hate pulls us further from the center. And the center is where harmony lies.

Carl Jung might have had some insight into the Force on this topic;

I have learned that in addition to the spirit of this time there is still another spirit at work, namely that which rules the depths of everything contemporary. The spirit of this time would like to hear of use and value. I also thought this way, and my humanity still thinks this way. But that other spirit forces me nevertheless to speak, beyond justification, use, and meaning, filled with human pride and blinded by the presumptuous spirit of the times, I long sought to hold that other spirit away from me. But I did not consider that the spirit of the depths from time immemorial and for all the future possesses a greater power
than the spirit of this time, who changes with the generations.

My opinion on this is there is a real distinction how we percieve aspects of the Force, and its there where I think the terms living and unifying find meaning. That the living aspect is much more comfortable to work with, and that the unifying aspect much more foreign it is thus even dangerous to oneself. Perhaps that is the only distinction - how we percieve it. The point being though that accessing the unifying aspect seems to mean confronting the depths of the subconscious and venturing into the spiritual unknown.

Carl Jung continues a bit further on to say;

But the supreme meaning is the path, the way and the bridge to what is to come. That is the God yet to come. It is not the coming God himself, but his image which appears in the supreme meaning. God is an image, and those who worship him must worship him in the images of the supreme meaning. The supreme meaning is not meaning and not absurdity, it is image and force in one, magnificence and force together.

.. and;

The image of God has a shadow, and , and Like plants, so men also grow, some in the light, others in the shadows, and The image of God throws a shadow that isjust as great as itself, but he also says The shadow is nonsense, and It lacks force and has no continued existance through itself. But nonsense is the inseperable and undying brother of the supreme meaning.

So I do agree there is a dark side to the Force, but I see it as more a shadow of the Force itself. In this way I actually see the Force as 100% light. I think any use of emotions is a distraction from the Force, and is a misintepretation of what the dark side might be. I havent experienced any dark Force yet, but I have experienced parts of the Force so foreign they automatically generate an instinctual emotion reaction such as fear, thus appearing to be a dark force.

I find the Jedi philosophy really sits perfectly with the living aspect but I think the Sith code is a little more specific to dealing with the unifying aspect.... unfortunatly the nature of delving into the subconcious with any depth means confrontation with various potentials for madness so it makes sense that the Sith as portrayed by Hollywood turn out to be maniacs with diagnosable mental disorders!! That's a bit harsh though, and I'm finding a lot of the symbology of working with the spiritual dimension is what is popularily labelled as evil. I do though believe in evil, but only the type of behaviours displayed by animals like us humans, as I've yet to run into genuine supernatural evil.

As a result I just think any real world Sith would be almost a graduate program unto the Jedi path, taking the important foundations of the Jedi way and focusing on delving into the subconcious - to discover deeper truths about the Force. Perhaps Carl Jung's 'The Red Book' might be an apt inclusion into a Sith canon for the real world!!

Here is an excerpt from it; www.gnosis.org/library/The-Red-Book.pdf

Source: Jung, Carl Gustav (2009). Sonu Shamdasani. ed. The Red Book. Liber Novus

Wescli Wardest wrote:
I believe the attachment to love pulls us from the center.

The Jedi Creed says this: "Where there is hatred, I shall bring love." Would we desire to bring love anywhere if it took us away from the center of harmony?

(BTW, great post; I like how it makes me think of the topic in more detail.)

That is a fine line you're treading.

Why would it be acceptable to love and not to hate? If I am allowed one extreme, why not the other. Because of how it is viewed?

I see bringing love as an action and not an emotion, like compassion. It is in the act of compassion that we aid. But, if I am to strike down an enemy in defense of my life would it be hate, an act of hate or just someone viewing as a hateful act. Because not all will see it as an act of defense.

And that is why I do not prescribe to this line of thought. Does an apple tree love you because it provides you fruit to eat? Even though the seed is poisonous?

Perhaps in the future I will be more comfortable exploring these paths, but for now I feel I should just try and stay in the center. And yes, it is a comfort level. I think it would be unwise for me to try and explore all possibilities until I have better mastered where I am at.

I am reminded that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Many times throughout history people have traveled where angles fear to tread. And it usually ends with disastrous results.

You said: "Why would it be acceptable to love and not to hate? If I am allowed one extreme, why not the other. Because of how it is viewed?"

Not by how it is viewed, but by consequences we have seen from it. I think it would be difficult to present a lot of evidence suggesting that cultivating hate had a more beneficial end than bringing or cultivating love and compassion.

As a learning Jedi, I think it's not acceptable to hate because it leads to the Dark Side. Love and compassion, not attached and living in the moment doesn't lead to the dark side. The fear of losing love or in other words, the fear of not having it anymore is the path to hell as you put it.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I'm certainly not trying to convince you my way is right. Just wanted to throw out another view point.

(Again, good post to think on.)

Well, basically yes - it's preferable to love, not hate and it's okay to value one emotion over the other.

For one thing, in general love brings about good and positive things in the world and others. Hate never has, that I know of, resulted in a positive, good feeling in others. So, yes, I value love over hate (compassion over anger, forgivness over vengance etc).

The problem with hate, like love, is that is can be a two edged sword when used improperly. Someone who is inexperienced with such delicate matters can easily cause themselves and those around them much pain and suffering with any strong emotion. While they do have some benefits (love can help bring peace, hate can bring focus for instance), it is an area to tread lightly.

As to the parable of the apple tree, it simply is. There is no love or hate, good or evil in it. It just is, much the same way as I feel the Force to be. There is no good or evil, light or dark within the Force, it simply is. It is the individual with good or evil intent in their hearts that makes the difference.

There is nothing wrong with placing greater value on the usefulness of hate than of love, it is your perogative. The Force will not be less or more either way. You may destroy yourself and those around you if you are not careful, but it is still your choice, and only your choice.

We may not agree with everyone's opinions here, but we still care about them as individuals and respect their right to their own opinions. In this way, we love everyone, even those who we may otherwise not be able to tolerate. As stated before, this is my view, and you are entitled to yours, which I respect.